The only survivor of the October 24 fire was a woman in her 20s who was able to get to safety after a quick thinking passer-by smashed a window of the burning Model Y car to free her
When I first learned that Teslas (and almost all other EV’s) have electronic only doors, I knew this kind of situation would happen.
I hope this gets laws enacted that force manufacturers to install mechanical latches on all of their vehicles. I know Teslas have manual overrides on their front doors, but the rear doors still have this issue.
The Titantic was designed to stay afloat long enough to allow everyone to disembark in cohorts on life boats to rescue boats and send the lifeboats back for the rest- it was never intended to fit everyone on lifeboats all at once.
It was that a mix of how telephone operators made more money off personal telegrams than ice warnings, and didnt relay the messages, and how nearby possible rescue ships had gone to bed and turned off their radios meant this process didn’t get executed, and how because the iceberg hit the ship, essentially creating a large gash the entire length of the ship, causing the flotation bulwarks to be breached, which is a very rare occurrence, caused so much death.
In Tesla’s case, that much aforethought hasn’t been taken.
People weren’t meant to stay in the life boats? That’s a new one on me, I’d read that they had space more life boats but utilise it, instead going with the legal minimum.
Yes, I know I’m derailing the topic at hand, but I’m interested.
False: “All but two lifeboats were situated on the Boat Deck, the highest deck of Titanic.”
“Titanic only had enough lifeboats to accommodate approximately a third of the ship’s total capacity.”
“Compounding the disaster, Titanic’s crew was poorly trained on using the davits (lifeboat launching equipment). As a result, lifeboat launches were slow, improperly executed, and poorly supervised. These factors contributed to several lifeboats leaving with only half their capacity.”
I believe @warm@kbin.earth is referring to how Teslas have electronic door releases instead of mechanical handles and they don’t work in a fire. There is a mechanical emergency override (I think only on the front doors) but it’s not obvious and there have been multiple deaths from people who could not figure out how to escape from burning vehicles.
To me it’s the most egregious example of Tesla not knowing the basics of how to build a car or eschewing user experience conventions that have been developed over more than a century of car building for good reasons in favor of trying to be modern or futuristic.
Thx, okay I didn’t get it but makes sense. Yeah it’s really stupid to “reinvent” everything and offhandedly brush away the things that have been written in blood during previous decades… I mean it’s kind of obvious that a safety mechanism needs to be fast and easy to operate. Making someone disassemble a door while on fire and blind from the thick smoke might not be the best idea. And you’d need to perform some safety dance each time before boarding a Tesla or people/passengers won’t know the strange procedures.
Just how California had laws that effectively forced automakers to make nationwide changes, Europe can still mandate this and it may end up here regardless.
I don’t think it will have as much of an effect on the auto industry I’m afraid, the auto industry is already well used to having multiple regional models to comply with weird country quirks of their own vehicle safety boards.
Any EU mandate will just get through onto the already existing model destined for EU countries. Unless the EU writes it in such a way to force companies to abide by it in all countries even non-EU, but that would be a legal gray area for sure.
It works for Cali because no company is going to have multiple regional region cars (i.e. states), that would be a step to far for them lol
NHTSA is part of the executive, so he would still have control over it, but we can at least hopefully place restrictions on his power (or impeach) in 2, assuming the election still happens and the results are accepted.
In general, this isn’t exactly a safety conscious administration in those terms.
Prepare to see a lot more products with serious safety issues coast by disinterested regulators and become popular with your friends and family. Peppering your life with a little extra spice.
When I first learned that Teslas (and almost all other EV’s) have electronic only doors
I really just want a regular car with an EV power train. Don’t to change a bunch of shit on the car, unless it is germane to its function as an EV. Things like doors, instrument clusters, turn signals, infotainment, HVAC controls, shifting (e.g. park, reverse, drive) should be the same as any other vehicle.
You want an e-Golf, which was a beautifully stupid, half-hearted implementation of an EV by Volkswagen, who because they really didn’t want to do it, spent almost nothing on redesign, and in the process creating a ridiculously fun vehicle to drive with sporty handling and high torque at low speed, but nothing else changed from the classic Golf design. Door handles, freaking dials on the dashboard, manual climate and audio controls. Sadly, it isn’t being made anymore. We’ve outgrown ours and it’s time for me to let someone else enjoy the experience (especially with the Biden used EV sales incentives going away soon) but my daughter loves it so much that I’m dreading the tantrum that I know will come when I sell it.
Yeah the releases in the 3 and Y aren’t too bad. Most people use them by mistake once or twice (and get the warning about window trim).
The X however is unforgivable. You have to pop off the speaker grills to get to them and then the door also weighs a lot and has to be manually lifted upwards.
No, on the X there is a lever just below the open door button on the front doors. I have seen multiple people use it instead of the button because the button in the front door is less obvious to them then the lever.
I have to disagree with them not being obvious however. Nearly every new person in my Model 3 goes to grab the emergency release immediately. I even added vinyl door open stickers next to the button to make it more obvious and it still happens almost every time.
Yes I wasn’t clear. They aren’t obvious for rear seat passengers. They are in a reasonable and semi obvious place for front seat passengers. The very first time I was in a model y I pulled the emergency door pull thinking that was the handle.
The model 3 and Y both back mechanical backups. I suspect the S does too. The back doors on the X definitely don’t, but that’s not the only questionable design decision on the X.
So give it regular-ass doors like every other SUV. Now Tesla’s only full-size SUV (as well as their only “truck”) are not compatible with a roof rack. If I get an SUV or a truck it’s because I want to move a bunch of stuff around, and I 100% will get a roof rack because of that.
That’s fine then. We’re relearning why all cars with manual transmissions have the same foot pedal and shift pattern arrangement. It’s so in a panic situation, people aren’t having to orientate themselves mentally and can just go off of muscle memory to save themselves. I should be shocked that Tesla didn’t hire any auto industry veterans that know that, but I’m not. This reeks of software dev shit where every new MBA coming in just has to shake things up and reinvent everything so they can leave their mark.
Nothing about having an EV drive train requires electric doors. Others have already said that other EVs have manual doors or manual override for panic situations.
Didn’t say I wouldn’t go back to manual latches, just not going back to ICE (or selling my almost paid cars) because elon is a twit or they are unreasonably dangerous in the event of a freak accident.
This is a stupid problem to have, but expected value says most people will never have it.
Dude shut up lol. Everybody is jerking off on Tesla for an admittedly gnarly problem that will affect practically no one. Yes it’s stupid, but so is your furious masturbation to Tesla issues at the expense of actually reading the comments.
And yes, expected values against risk are literally all that matter. If that was not the case, no car would ever move from the assembly line for fear of rolling over a toddler or crashing into a cyclist. Pucker up your flapping butthole you’re talking out of and collect yourself. People will still stroke your weiner for saying “Tesla bad” even if you resort to reading and discussion; it will be ok. Stop putting words in other commenters mouths.
I read an article that Teslas are designed to have thier electrics in a daisy chain to avoid big ugly bundles of wires. But that just means a failure propagates down the chain so non critical systems can take out critical ones. Clearly he doesn’t listen to or hire car engineers.
Shouldn’t an electric be programmed to open if it finds itself undergoing powerloss? Isn’t that like a very basic failsafe? One so basic it’s the plot to an indie horror game that wasn’t intended for children but found an audience there anyway?
Clearly Tesla opted for the fail-deadly route instead of the fail-safe route. Fuckin ridiculous.
In all honesty, I don’t see a good solution to electronic doors. If the power dies while it’s just sitting in your driveway, now it’s open, if the doors open on electricity loss. Definitely better than what they have now, but I’d prefer something completely different. Like what if we had a series of levers and cables that opened the door? I know, it’s like, next level crazy, but maybe…
this is why electric locks should NOT be relied on for safety: electric locks MUST default open when something goes wrong, which means that picking them is as easy as making them malfunction or cutting the power.
When I first learned that Teslas (and almost all other EV’s) have electronic only doors, I knew this kind of situation would happen.
I hope this gets laws enacted that force manufacturers to install mechanical latches on all of their vehicles. I know Teslas have manual overrides on their front doors, but the rear doors still have this issue.
It’s like if Titanic not only didn’t have enough lifeboats, but instead had no lifeboats, and also everyone was locked in their cabins.
The Titantic was designed to stay afloat long enough to allow everyone to disembark in cohorts on life boats to rescue boats and send the lifeboats back for the rest- it was never intended to fit everyone on lifeboats all at once.
It was that a mix of how telephone operators made more money off personal telegrams than ice warnings, and didnt relay the messages, and how nearby possible rescue ships had gone to bed and turned off their radios meant this process didn’t get executed, and how because the iceberg hit the ship, essentially creating a large gash the entire length of the ship, causing the flotation bulwarks to be breached, which is a very rare occurrence, caused so much death.
In Tesla’s case, that much aforethought hasn’t been taken.
People weren’t meant to stay in the life boats? That’s a new one on me, I’d read that they had space more life boats but utilise it, instead going with the legal minimum.
Yes, I know I’m derailing the topic at hand, but I’m interested.
In this case, they have lifeboats (apparently), they were just all hidden down in the ship somewhere (apparently).
False: “All but two lifeboats were situated on the Boat Deck, the highest deck of Titanic.”
“Titanic only had enough lifeboats to accommodate approximately a third of the ship’s total capacity.”
“Compounding the disaster, Titanic’s crew was poorly trained on using the davits (lifeboat launching equipment). As a result, lifeboat launches were slow, improperly executed, and poorly supervised. These factors contributed to several lifeboats leaving with only half their capacity.”
But seems they launched 18 out of 20 available.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboats_of_the_Titanic
I believe @warm@kbin.earth is referring to how Teslas have electronic door releases instead of mechanical handles and they don’t work in a fire. There is a mechanical emergency override (I think only on the front doors) but it’s not obvious and there have been multiple deaths from people who could not figure out how to escape from burning vehicles.
To me it’s the most egregious example of Tesla not knowing the basics of how to build a car or eschewing user experience conventions that have been developed over more than a century of car building for good reasons in favor of trying to be modern or futuristic.
Thx, okay I didn’t get it but makes sense. Yeah it’s really stupid to “reinvent” everything and offhandedly brush away the things that have been written in blood during previous decades… I mean it’s kind of obvious that a safety mechanism needs to be fast and easy to operate. Making someone disassemble a door while on fire and blind from the thick smoke might not be the best idea. And you’d need to perform some safety dance each time before boarding a Tesla or people/passengers won’t know the strange procedures.
Considering Musk’s love affair with the incoming administration, I wouldn’t bet on it for the next 4 years (hopefully)
In fact I’d be happy to just have the NHTSA avoid being dismantled in the next 4 years
Just how California had laws that effectively forced automakers to make nationwide changes, Europe can still mandate this and it may end up here regardless.
The cybertruck is already illegal here in the EU since it doesn’t comply with pedestrian safety laws.
I don’t think it will have as much of an effect on the auto industry I’m afraid, the auto industry is already well used to having multiple regional models to comply with weird country quirks of their own vehicle safety boards.
Any EU mandate will just get through onto the already existing model destined for EU countries. Unless the EU writes it in such a way to force companies to abide by it in all countries even non-EU, but that would be a legal gray area for sure.
It works for Cali because no company is going to have multiple regional region cars (i.e. states), that would be a step to far for them lol
Mid-terms are in 2 years!
NHTSA is part of the executive, so he would still have control over it, but we can at least hopefully place restrictions on his power (or impeach) in 2, assuming the election still happens and the results are accepted.
In general, this isn’t exactly a safety conscious administration in those terms.
Prepare to see a lot more products with serious safety issues coast by disinterested regulators and become popular with your friends and family. Peppering your life with a little extra spice.
I really just want a regular car with an EV power train. Don’t to change a bunch of shit on the car, unless it is germane to its function as an EV. Things like doors, instrument clusters, turn signals, infotainment, HVAC controls, shifting (e.g. park, reverse, drive) should be the same as any other vehicle.
You want an e-Golf, which was a beautifully stupid, half-hearted implementation of an EV by Volkswagen, who because they really didn’t want to do it, spent almost nothing on redesign, and in the process creating a ridiculously fun vehicle to drive with sporty handling and high torque at low speed, but nothing else changed from the classic Golf design. Door handles, freaking dials on the dashboard, manual climate and audio controls. Sadly, it isn’t being made anymore. We’ve outgrown ours and it’s time for me to let someone else enjoy the experience (especially with the Biden used EV sales incentives going away soon) but my daughter loves it so much that I’m dreading the tantrum that I know will come when I sell it.
The model Y has mechanical emergency door openers in the front. Not in the rear. It complains about possibly breaking window trim when you use them.
They are not super obvious though and you’d have to know in an emergency.
Yeah the releases in the 3 and Y aren’t too bad. Most people use them by mistake once or twice (and get the warning about window trim).
The X however is unforgivable. You have to pop off the speaker grills to get to them and then the door also weighs a lot and has to be manually lifted upwards.
Oh yes, the obvious thing to do when trying to escape a fire.
As if we didn’t have enough reasons to hate musk
No, on the X there is a lever just below the open door button on the front doors. I have seen multiple people use it instead of the button because the button in the front door is less obvious to them then the lever.
I’m talking about the back doors. But yes. I incorrectly compared the front doors in the 3/Y with the back doors of the X.
Same with the Model 3.
I have to disagree with them not being obvious however. Nearly every new person in my Model 3 goes to grab the emergency release immediately. I even added vinyl door open stickers next to the button to make it more obvious and it still happens almost every time.
Yes I wasn’t clear. They aren’t obvious for rear seat passengers. They are in a reasonable and semi obvious place for front seat passengers. The very first time I was in a model y I pulled the emergency door pull thinking that was the handle.
The model 3 and Y both back mechanical backups. I suspect the S does too. The back doors on the X definitely don’t, but that’s not the only questionable design decision on the X.
They didn’t want sliding doors because that makes it a minivan. And minivans are “uncool”
So give it regular-ass doors like every other SUV. Now Tesla’s only full-size SUV (as well as their only “truck”) are not compatible with a roof rack. If I get an SUV or a truck it’s because I want to move a bunch of stuff around, and I 100% will get a roof rack because of that.
Most manufacturers use the door handle to override the electronic system. Like pulling twice or harder than usual.
That’s fine then. We’re relearning why all cars with manual transmissions have the same foot pedal and shift pattern arrangement. It’s so in a panic situation, people aren’t having to orientate themselves mentally and can just go off of muscle memory to save themselves. I should be shocked that Tesla didn’t hire any auto industry veterans that know that, but I’m not. This reeks of software dev shit where every new MBA coming in just has to shake things up and reinvent everything so they can leave their mark.
And it reeks because they “leave their mark” just like an unneutered cat.
Anyone who has ever been in a Tesla knows they’re a software company, not a car company. The cars are made like crap.
I still wouldn’t go back to ICE though.
Nothing about having an EV drive train requires electric doors. Others have already said that other EVs have manual doors or manual override for panic situations.
Didn’t say I wouldn’t go back to manual latches, just not going back to ICE (or selling my almost paid cars) because elon is a twit or they are unreasonably dangerous in the event of a freak accident.
This is a stupid problem to have, but expected value says most people will never have it.
Nobody asked you to sell your car. Stop taking this discussion personally.
Also, Expected Value is irrelevant for safety features.
Dude shut up lol. Everybody is jerking off on Tesla for an admittedly gnarly problem that will affect practically no one. Yes it’s stupid, but so is your furious masturbation to Tesla issues at the expense of actually reading the comments.
And yes, expected values against risk are literally all that matter. If that was not the case, no car would ever move from the assembly line for fear of rolling over a toddler or crashing into a cyclist. Pucker up your flapping butthole you’re talking out of and collect yourself. People will still stroke your weiner for saying “Tesla bad” even if you resort to reading and discussion; it will be ok. Stop putting words in other commenters mouths.
I think this practically effected at least four people at least. How many people does it need to affect for it to become a “practical” issue?
I read an article that Teslas are designed to have thier electrics in a daisy chain to avoid big ugly bundles of wires. But that just means a failure propagates down the chain so non critical systems can take out critical ones. Clearly he doesn’t listen to or hire car engineers.
Rear doors have manual overrides too.
Not simping for Elon, fuck him.
*Not available on all models
Reading this thread that does appear to be the case, that’s insane. Fuck Elon again.
With lord Elon presiding over god king trumps “economy”, I wouldn’t count on that. Adding that safe guard measure would cost him too much.
Shouldn’t an electric be programmed to open if it finds itself undergoing powerloss? Isn’t that like a very basic failsafe? One so basic it’s the plot to an indie horror game that wasn’t intended for children but found an audience there anyway?
Clearly Tesla opted for the fail-deadly route instead of the fail-safe route. Fuckin ridiculous.
In all honesty, I don’t see a good solution to electronic doors. If the power dies while it’s just sitting in your driveway, now it’s open, if the doors open on electricity loss. Definitely better than what they have now, but I’d prefer something completely different. Like what if we had a series of levers and cables that opened the door? I know, it’s like, next level crazy, but maybe…
this is why electric locks should NOT be relied on for safety: electric locks MUST default open when something goes wrong, which means that picking them is as easy as making them malfunction or cutting the power.
Except power cables are inside and to pick them you first need to pick them.
What game is that?
FNAF
Should’ve known
They have mechanical overrides but look whee some of them are. Have to remove a door panel.
Some of the cheaper ones skip the overrides in the back to deliver more value to shareholders.
Every fucking one of them needs to be recalled.