Here we go, the first Presidential debate between Biden and Trump begins at 9 PM Eastern/6 PM Pacific.
How to watch it:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/politics/how-to-watch-cnn-debate/index.html
"The CNN Presidential Debate will air live on CNN, CNN International and CNN en Español, and via streaming on Max for subscribers and without a cable login on CNN.com. CNN will make the debate available to simulcast on additional broadcast and cable news networks.
You can also follow CNN’s live debate coverage on CNN.com, which will include analysis and fact checking."
"According to parameters set by CNN in May, all participating debaters had to appear on a sufficient number of state ballots to reach the 270 electoral vote threshold to win the presidency and receive at least 15% in four separate national polls of registered or likely voters that meet CNN’s standards for reporting.
Polls that meet those standards are those sponsored by CNN, ABC News, CBS News, Fox News, Marquette University Law School, Monmouth University, NBC News, The New York Times/Siena College, NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist College, Quinnipiac University, The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post."
Edit And that’s it! Thanks for watching everyone!
tl;dw:
Consensus is Trump didn’t so much as beat Biden as Biden beat himself.
The real loser is CNN who failed to fact check anyone, and there were obvious fact checks on both sides.
I’m going to vote for policy, not a person. I don’t agree with Trump on anything, so I’ll vote for Biden.
On anything at all? So… you like war? I assume you invest into the military industrial complex?
Sure, Trump will take down the military industrial complex…
No… that wasn’t my point.
Biden ended the war in Afghanistan after 20 years. You just don’t like that he sells military hardware to other countries, but that’s what every president, even Jimmy Carter, does.
I think the way Biden went about it was wrong. We left military hardware that is now in the hands of the so-called enemy - the taliban. Which apparently they’re now utilizing and repairing vehicles and other military assets for use.
- Why do you think 3 previous Presidents kicked the can of withdrawal down the road? Because it was always going to be a cluster-fuck and politically-backfiring. .
- Let me know when you have the magic solution that would achieve zero deaths, zero equipment loss, and a stable government.
- Let me know when it dawns on you that the number of troops lossed annually by remaining in Afghanistan equates to more than the withdrawal – and yet you don’t seem to care about this. I wonder why.
- Remember that the vast majority of equipment “left behind” in Afghanistan was equipment we had already given to the Afghan government and the Afghan National Army. That they turned around and immediately surrendered is more on them than Biden.
Ultimately, the Taliban were well-equipped and well-armed enough to push around the Afghan Government and US Govt. I hardly think a blackhawk and some hummers is going to make a difference, but people like you sure do love the negative optics for some reason.
I appreciate Biden doing what the other Presidents couldn’t. He saved American lives in the long-run
Forget the fact that this deflects the ultimate point: Biden actually got us out of a war; All Trump did was:
- Back out of the major diplomatic Iran Nuclear Deal
- Launch missiles at Syria
- Do nothing when Russia attacked Ukraine during the Kerch Strait Incident
- Cozied up to dictators.
They can’t maintain it. They can hardly use what little was left for them.
That’s pretty racist. What, because they’re Afghanis, they don’t have mechanical or electrical hands on experience? lmao
What little was left for them? Brah, they repaired 300 U.S. military vehicles. 300 isn’t a little.
Ah, according to the illustrious (and surely credible) Afghanistan International, they did. Sure. And if so, how will they obtain parts to keep them continuously operational?
Donald Trump bragged about how much the military loves him and how Putin told him he dreamed of taking over Ukraine. You really think Donald Trump would weaken our military for any other reason than to appease his Russian masters?
Well according to Trump, he’s going to stop the Ukraine/Russia war. If he was a Russian puppet or Russian fan, surely he’d allow Putin to continue taking land.
Fact of the matter is, that war should have never started in the first place. And NATO needs to mind its own fkin business and stop trying to meddle in other nations.
There’s a lot of intent hidden between his words. He would, at best, want Ukraine to concede stolen territory to Russia as terms of the cease fire.
NATO exists and operates as it does for good reason. Read up on post-WW2 history.
Yeah that’s how it works. You should try living in the real world. It’s a drag! 😄
I’m pretty centered, leaning right. I can actually agree with the left with some things and not others.
If you like war, then I guess continue voting for the status quo, whether left or right.
One thing I disagree with Trump is his alignment with Israel.
Why is the former president and leader of the one of two political parties not the status quo?
Gore was status quo, but if he’d won we wouldn’t have had the war in Iraq.
Hilary was the status quo, but if she won we’d still have Roe v Wade.
If you vote republican, you will get the status quo with an added disaster or two mixed in.
I don’t believe Thomas Massie, for example, is status quo since he goes against the grain 9 times out of 10.
Yeah and I liked Justin Amash but 1 or 2 local Congress people do not define the party, definitely not enough that anyone should vote Trump because of them.
Agreed. I don’t know if Trump is status quo. He appears to be against the status quo. His actions would prove what side he’s on.
This country is cooked with these two as the choices. Biden looked awful, and Trump didn’t answer anything at all. Trump gets a pass on never having any substance to his replies. It is just jokes and insults.
And lies. Lots and lots of lies, from the mouth of the lying liar.
Trump should NEVER get a pass. He’s had enough of those.
The media is to blame here handling this debate like it is a Wrestlemania match. No pushback at all for Trump dodging questions and letting them go on about golf when people’s materials needs aren’t met and they just criminalized being homeless. Very unserious debate moderators.
Oh. My. God.
It’s literally two old-as-fuck fucks arguing about their golf swings. This is literally how the debate is coming to a close. I just… I don’t even know what to say.
That was ironically the best summary of the damn debate. Two out of touch liches talking about golf.
I wonder how the liberals feel now, that pushed Biden on electability and rejected any more radical options because they were too scary and conflicting with the party line.
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Yeah, those liberals in DC have got to wake up to reality. I’m solidly going to vote for the Democrat this election, whether it’s Biden or a literal baboon. However, there are lots of people out there who voted for Biden the first time who are now likely going to abstain or vote for Trump. The optics of Biden debate performance really harmed his candidacy.
The optics of Biden debate performance really harmed his candidacy.
It was always going to be a shit show with little upside to it. it doesn’t matter how well he performed or if he had a cold, or whatever else. all this debate was ever going to do was give the otherside more soundbites to mock, and give the turd a platform to spew more hate.
since at least they didn’t let some filthy FDR-type
FDR threw 200,000 Americans into concentration camps. Even trump never did anything that dark. He was a tyrannical piece of shit and really shouldn’t be your metric for progressive politician.
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I’d rather focus on the negative. Take away what these bastards value most, their legacy. A bad person who does a few good things is still a bad person and should be remembered as a bad person. If future presidents see them getting dragged through the mud instead of lauded because MUH FREE MONEY maybe they’d think twice about being dickbags.
who are all shitty overall to lesser degrees at best.
Lesser degrees? Really? Lesser than putting Americans in concentration camps? Yeah, some were worse, but FDR isn’t anywhere near the top of the ‘good guy’ scale. At best he’s somewhere in the middle.
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I’d go there.
Elect me.
I totally promise not to be an asshole.
(Oh, I’d totally be an asshole.) (but I’d happily ram a progressive agenda down people’s throats anyway…) (still. Don’t vote for me.)
I liked the golf part because you can tell it REALLY ticked Trump off.
The problem is he fucked the delivery and Trump got to be in the position to cut him off with a high road comeback. “Let’s not be children.” Biden muttered something after that but the damage was done.
Biden said “you are the child.” It was a “no u” moment, so I rolled my eyes.
But to be fair, Biden also attacked Trump several times. He called him a liar to his face. He referred to him as “this guy,” and called him a convicted felon.
Too bad he didn’t have the same energy he had during the State of the Union.
Edit: sorry, I referred to moments other than the golf one. And yes, I agree with you. His delivery was poor.
Oh yeah he had strong moments, but during the SOTU and 2020 debates he was far stronger. I actually believe he’s sick. The problem is that excuse doesn’t fly with the American people. It didn’t help Hillary out either. That’s also why I’m sure this isn’t a speech impediment problem. Here’s the 2020 debate. It’s night and day.
Why do we only get 90 minutes. Why do they only get 1 minute to answer. Sit the down and have an actual discussion damnit. You’re trying to run a country not win a talent show. I want hear how their brains work, not their mouths.
You’re uninformed. If you want to see how it would have played out, search for the debate they had in 2020.
You’re absolutely right. We are so far away from being able to do that.
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Not a single fact check. It’s not that hard to state when something is inaccurate and challenge the speaker
Yes, they should have been fact checking Trump or better holding him to his answers - but to be fair maybe they should have been asking Biden to actually clarify if he’s beating Medicare or getting COVID passed.
This was a shit show.
And it was such a shit show that Trump was a complete clown and getting away with it - not just because of the moderators, but because his opponent was as on point as a tree stump.
Entertainment above all.
The bigger half US doesn’t care about facts.
The only criterion that’s needed is TO SPEAK LOUDLY.
The moderators should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They accomplished what they were there to do.
I told y’all joe should not have agreed to debates. Even if everything goes perfectly there is no upside.
Those who argued it would help undecideds or somehow deflate trump - now do you see? Obvious dumpster fire is obvious. Congrats we have to scoop shit for a month now instead of making progress.
Fucking DNC, desperate to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. AGAIN.
I keep tryna tell people Zazlov wants CNN to be right wing
Is that even a question? Of course he does.
I’ve been telling people that for 2 years, yet they deny it.
WE ARE SO FUCKED
Progressives tried to tell you.
“Progressives” don’t have a candidate who can win a primary, much less a general election.
Progressives don’t have a party that doesn’t regard them with virulent hatred.
If everyone hates you, it’s generally not everyone else’s fault.
Look at your own efforts here. Shrill, ideological rigidity that pisses off the people you’re hoping your argument will reach.
“Stop resisting” - tone police.
This was the only thing I said within 60 seconds of the debate starting. We are so fucked
Bring in Gavin Newsom NOW.
The elimination of the First Past the Post voting system would allow voters to support third-party candidates without the fear of causing a spoiler effect. This change would promote greater competition in elections, improving the caliber of candidates available to all voters. Also, it is likely to boost voter turnout and increase political engagement.
Electoral reform has already been achieved at the state level; Alaska and Maine have successfully implemented changes to their electoral systems, demonstrating that broader reform is feasible.
However, Republicans have taken steps to preserve the First Past the Post voting system. For instance, Florida recently outlawed Ranked Choice voting. Despite this setback, there are numerous alternatives to First Past the Post, ensuring that bans like Florida’s do not obstruct progress toward electoral reform.
This raises the question: why do predominantly Democratic states continue to utilize First Past the Post voting? Why continueto use a voting system favored by Republicans? In states controlled by Democrats, there are no Republican obstacles preventing these reforms.
It is evident that Democrats recognize the shortcomings of First Past the Post voting. Mentioning third-party voting on social media often prompts numerous Democrats to caution against “wasting” votes that could inadvertently benefit Republicans. It is perplexing to acknowledge flaws in the voting system yet fail to take action to address them. Lecturing others about the drawbacks of First Past the Post voting while neglecting to pursue solutions is contradictory and counterproductive.
Here are some videos on the topic if you’d like to know more:
First Past The Post voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
Other electoral systems to choose from:
Alternative vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
Ranked Choice voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2fRPRkWvY
Range Voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GFG0sXIig
Single Transferable Vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI
STAR voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-mOeUXAkV0
Mixed Member Proportional representation
It’s simply not in the Democrat’s self-interest in states where they control the elections.
This is clear evidence, as if we needed it, that gaining and maintaining power is all EITHER political party cares about.
We need an independent review of the system, apart from either party’s influence, to make any headway with election reform.
Good stuff.
Electoral College first, though, or else the rest is ultimately moot.
God bless the onion.
The Onion from the top rope!
and that is exactly why he is bad at it. i don’t see a problem 😂
Jon Stewart was kind of brutal:
“Lots of people have ‘resting 25th amendment face.’”
Listening to more of the analysis and clips from the debate, Biden’s performance reminded me of high school and college presentations where students over-prepared by following a very rigid, memorized script but derail because they forget a single key word or trigger. This isn’t a very robust presentation strategy that can easily fail even with younger minds, let alone someone in their 80s.
That and he sounded weak. I get that he had a cold, and re-scheduling wasn’t in the cards, but his whisper/mumble was hard to follow and he was up against the living personification of /r/confidentlywrong.
Agreed. The cold thing doesn’t cause one to jump from abortion to immigration mid-sentence, either. Blaming the cold makes Biden look weaker, considering Trump had covid during the 2020 debate and still did comparatively better.
Ahh what a time of absurdity…
This should have been on CSPAN.
THE OCHO
I seriously doubt it but I really hope this is a wake-up call for Democrats. I remain convinced that Biden voluntarily stepping down and permitting a younger more charismatic figure in his place will be all that is needed to win, and I say this for a few reasons:
- By the polling, age is a huge issue for a significant majority of Americans, with it clearly harming Biden more.
- Any youthful semi-in-the-shadows candidate will be fresh for Americans, who will be excited for anything different.
- The right-wing talking-points won’t be pre-written.
- By Biden & Democrats getting ahead of this and saying, “look we recognize the electorate’s concerns and what’s at stake and we know the people by large majorities don’t want either President, so we’re responding,” they would get major points.
Call it a reverse-October surprise.
That being said, this is the earliest debate ever and Trump still needs to go through sentencing in July. People won’t really remember this debate, but it certainly did not help Biden in any capacity.
Oh, they will play this debate in clips forever.
We live in an age of YouTube and tiktok shorts.
That “destroy Medicare” gaff that Trump capitalized on clowning him for is definitely gonna make the rounds. Makes Trump look sharp (honestly in the case it was fairly witty) and Biden look senile.
I’d elect just about anyone over Trump but c’mon Biden.
The memes write themselves.
I’m just wondering how much impact it will really have since there are already montages of Biden’s senility going around.
wake up calls don’t do shit when you’re not interested in “waking up”
We all know that Biden is a liability. BUT WHO WILL REPLACE HIM? I don’t like the man but who else in the party can take his role? Nobody credibly challenged him during the primary. Harris doesn’t poll as well as Biden and does worse. We’re stuck with him because nobody stepped up all year or last year, and everyone who wants him to step down thinks some magic TBD savior can show up out of nowhere and magically do better. Heck, Dean Phillips tried to run for president on the exact same issues and promised identical policies just in a younger person and he lost the race badly.
We’re stuck with Biden, and likely will lose.
Gretchen Whitmer
“MAGA tried to kidnap and kill me” is a pretty good campaign narrative.
Put Big Gretch up top and keep Harris as the VP and I think they could smash Trump. I think you gotta keep Harris on board for this to be a smooth enough transition this late in the game. I think a ton of people would be excited about an all female ticket too.
Newsom looked strong on MSNBC post debate.
Honestly he would come out swinging and well backed financially. He’s moderate but not truly conservative from a leftist POV and moderate but not truly leftist from a “between the parties” POV.
He could do it.
Also I have a soft spot for California Gubernatorial races. They’re just more fun.
The only problem I see with Newsom is that California is already largely demonized by Midwest voters as some sort of liberal hell hole. He’d need to find a way to resonate with low income, non-coastal voters.
You’d be surprised how quickly Mid West voters will forget about “California” when he announces more farming subsidies as a campaign promise.
Gretchen, Booker, Buttigieg, Abrams, even Newsom. Lots of potential candidates that are young, charismatic, and have largely clean slates like Obama.
People fell in line to avoid another 2016 infighting, not because we don’t have candidates. Literally anyone young would do better for aforementioned reasons.
The only way this works is if Biden voluntarily agrees and steps down, which ensures nobody is burned by the party.
Show me one with higher poll numbers than Biden. When they were head to head in 2020 each polled lower than Biden against Trump.
I don’t want to defend Biden. He should go. He is a corrupt old man with a ton of baggage and his Palestine policy was atrocious. But I don’t see any of those people beating Trump based on the data we have.
Really. You want me to show polls for something that hasn’t happened yet? In 2020, what are you talking about? Half these people I mentioned didn’t even run in the 2020 Primaries, forgetting the obvious logical fallacy that “Who does well in the primaries predicts who does better a year from then in the General Election.” In 2020, Joe Biden was 4 years younger and far less senile than he shows now while Trump’s support was lower mostly thanks to a botched handling of covid at the time.
There is not one data-point where Biden isn’t performing worse than he did at this time in 2020.
In the event Biden voluntarily steps down and either an open convention occurs or he endorses, is it really that inconceivable for you to believe overnight polling for such a candidate would skyrocket as both grassroots and establishment and MASSIVE widespread media press inundate such a person with coverage…?
I mean… What?
The data shows the American people (a) vehemently dislike both candidates, (b) perceive age to be a bigger issue with Biden, and © want fresh faces. Any of who I mentioned could’ve done better last night. Biden brings nothing to the table that the others cannot in this pressing moment.
We already have Newsom vs Biden and Newsom vs Trump polls. And the pundits talked endlessly in 2020 about the shortcomings of each candidate and why they’d struggle against Trump. We’ve been through this already.
If Biden steps down then of course whoever gets nominated will get a bump of course, but like we discussed collectively in 2020, they’d have their own separate hurdles. Bernie Sanders would energize many voters but his socialism talk would turn many voters off. Pete Buttigieg struggled to connect with voters of color. Warren had some political flubs and Trump launched many attacks on her etc. while there’s concern many Americans still won’t vote for a woman for president, and so on. The point I’m making is that you may find yourself in a situation in October where you WISH Biden was running again with his high poll numbers and solid national record that other candidates lack.
That’s a fair point but just consider these points:
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That’s an insane polling for someone who has not once threw their hat in the ring and actually campaigned nationally outside of California.
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We’re already starting with a President who is predicted by polling to lose to Donald Trump.
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Key to note, Biden’s numbers are generally baked in. Everyone knows everything about Biden, and the law of diminishing returns suggests nobody is going to find out something they dont’ already know.
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Whereas just the opposite is true with the likes of Whitmer & Newsom: months of viral media attention, actual national campaigns and speeches, debates, interviews – have the opportunity for someone to familiarize themselves with such alternate candidates and see the contrast of, “Wow, this guy can actually talk coherently and is far younger…” So you have to tell me with a straight face that once committed to be the nominee their name-recognition and approval skyrocket overnight.
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Mentioned weaknesses of candidates can be offset by a VP pick, as they always are.
In truth, we really haven’t been through this already. To conclude otherwise is to suggest that Joe Biden is literally the best candidate Democrats can field, which at his age and with his debate performance, is an incredibly low bar.
a President who is predicted by polling to lose to Donald Trump.
Biden’s numbers are baked in.
No, we have a president who is ahead in some polls and behind in others, 6 months before an election (which is generally unreliable since the polls fluctuate wildly this early). Pollsters and political scientists unanimously report polling in June is not reliable this soon before Labor Day. Look back and you’ll see HIllary, Romney, and Dukakis all ahead at this point in previous elections. The reason we are having this conversation is because people got skittish about the Debate, but we don’t even have accurate post-debate survey data at this time. The snap surveys by CNN and others showed a muddle of some people claiming Biden won anyway and others not. More data will come in next week.
And don’t forget the counterfactual; if you replace Biden despite winning the primaries in a landslide, you will anger many voters. Millions of people voted for Biden and this was not close; they rejected Dean Phillips and alternatives. People voted for Harris as a known backup; skipping her and having Newsom take over will cause a storm and backlash of a size we can’t quantify yet. There simply isn’t any data on Democratic voters that show any Biden remorse; you’re operating on the vibes from social media and some pundits.
In truth, we really haven’t been through this already.
Correct, and replacing Biden is a huge risk. It could cost the election the same way John McCain took a gamble on Sarah Palin and lost.
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Id be happy with Bernie
Another geriatric
who else in the party can take his role?
How is it possible that there’s no one better than Biden? He’s just so unelectable.
I mean, ok he’s done some great things as pres… but he’s too fucking old. JFC. Someone in their 50s
Because the election is a popularity contest, and name recognition is everything.
And he’s the incumbent. He is president right now.
But people recognise his name as being the guy who is too old.
It’s irrelevant that he’s the incumbent. He can just not run.
Dean Phillips made the mistake of trusting his vocal cords to a high pitched hurrah, lol.
Edit: oops, wrong guy.
I think you’re thinking of Howard Dean?
Yep, my bad.
That ship sailed over a year ago. We’re on this one. Get to bucketing.
Youth don’t vote, only Boomers vote. This is a election decided by Boomers, with Boomer issues.
I don’t understand the point you’re making, sorry.
Dude, democrats are killing it in every other metric this election season. We got some serious swing state polling right now. You are exactly right that if we can get someone new and more progressive, it would be a slam dunk.
Hell, conservative media is pretty scared right now that this very thing may happen. They know it would not just hurt their chances, it would fuckin’ bomb them.
What I saw up there was elder abuse. That was sad for Biden and sad that the DNC cancelled primaries for this when they knew this was happening.
This would hurt dem fundraising prospects over the next 4 years, so it’s not going to happen. (Unfortunately for us, because as you state it would certainly result in a landslide win of historic proportions.)
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Let’s be honest, fact-checking doesn’t matter to the American people watching this. The people who need to hear these facts have already been preprogrammed to believe CNN is biased and lying.
Trump demanded the debate, Biden should have demanded thorough fact checks with graphs and balances.
I personally would not have stepped in any debate setting with a certified liar and scammer without any sort of fact checking, it’s just foolishness.
We live in a world where Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho is more electable than the candidates we have.
I figured Idiocracy was prescient, but it’s coming true awfully fast.
Even by Idiocracy standards, You people gotta recognize something. President Camacho.
Former pro wrestler turned porn star turned president. He dresses in American flag pants, he addresses the nation by dancing, singing, and firing a gun into the air and rallying them with his aggressively patriotic (if completely empty) rhetoric. He’s energetic, likable, and absolutely captivating.
It’s not just flash, by the way. Sure, he may drive a monster truck, and sure, he wears a giant medal around his neck.
But President Camacho’s bombastic patriotism is not only inspirational and exciting and explosive, it’s also an incredibly useful quality for a leader to have, especially for his situation. America was struggling through a time of unprecedented poverty and loss, but it had a leader who still thought America was the best place in the world.
It’s not just President Camacho’s patriotism that makes him a great leader. Eventually, in the movie, Joe is brought to the attention of President Camacho.
This weird-talking time traveler with his fancy ideas made it all the way to the White House, because an IQ test claimed he was the smartest man alive.
And when that happened, President Camacho did a remarkable thing. He recognized that Joe was smarter, and he bowed to his wisdom.
Everyone ,everyone, in the world of Idiocracy resented Joe, because he talked differently and because his ideas, to them, sounded crazy. They turned against him out of their fear, their pride, and their inability to understand him.
Everyone else, when faced with Joe’s unconventional ideas, immediately went on the defensive and resented Joe. He didn’t fit in with their weird hive mind of delusion and idiocy.
Yet for all of his pomposity and ridiculousness, Camacho had the clarity of mind to look beyond all that. What he saw was a man who was smarter than himself, and he had no problem humbling himself and saying “Let’s trust the smart guy.”
I want President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.
That man is what a true patriot looks like. Not these flag-waving insurrectionist stooges.
Do you feel insightful for reiterating some ridiculous point made on reddit like 15 years ago
Nah, people don’t get to own movies
This candidate brought to you by Carl’s Jr.
What the fuck are the moderators even there for?
So much time is being taken with, “let me keep talking about the question from ten minutes ago and ignore what you just asked.”
Sorry people with children. The question that focused on your issues were just skipped over.
