Plain and simple… She was a woman, and a black person - There will be months of tap dancing and “deep” analysis, but we’re just an ugly, atrophied, broken, racist and patriarchal nation, like deep down in our DNA. We were able to elect Obama, yes - he is half white, and a man (those weren’t the loud messages as they attacked him, but Pennsylvania gramma knew those things quietly when she pulled the lever for him). It’s not satisfying, but it’s just the plain truth here. We’re closer to getting over race than we are over sex.
Plenty of deliberate work has been done, mostly by republicans, to keep America stupid, poor and in untreated pain, yes… But we’re also just trash on the whole. We raise trash and we vote for trash. We just aren’t smarter than social algorithms, TV soap opera narratives, costumes and makeup. “The pretend business man is white, old, wears a tie and has a gold watch. He feels like how daddy felt when I was little, and when things are bad, daddy fixed them the way I remember it.”
Video game trolls, people who failed the cop application physical and triple DUI wine moms are America. No further explanation or analysis needed.
Dems had the house for 12 years the past 16. Nothing really changed.
People have claimed Harris wasn’t capable of leading. They got their undeserved confirmation when she turned out to be a no show for 14 hours yesterday.
You construct a Strawman. If the Dems pulled a capable and charismatic woman out of the top hat she would be able to win.
Obama was a unique situation in that he was both an incredibly charismatic JFK-style figure and ran after the Republicans had managed to both start a very unpopular war and destroy the world economy.
Idk, as a white guy, that’s more cringe than offensive. Maybe that’s because I live in the South and can pass for a redneck, but I hear some vile shit from those other white guys fairly often.
The part that bothers me is that the DNC couldn’t put together genuine sounding messaging to men when American democracy itself hung in the balance. Dooming my nation because they absolutely couldn’t bring themselves to drop the identity politics is a transgression I don’t think I can ever forgive.
Those nakedly misandrist ads were brought to my attention after I cast my ballot.
I’ve never voted for a Republican in my life, but the Democrats will have to actually earn my vote if they ever run a candidate again, they may no longer expect me.
Blame me as much as you want, you’re going to anyway. I’m the bad guy even when voting your way so what’sthe point? Those who cannot bring themselves to speak to me with respect to literally save their lives can die as mad as they want.
I voted for Harris walz, but I think a lot of this is the fault of Biden for trying to run for reelection and sticking it out until July. I live in the south and I think the lack of a primary reallly hurt the ticket because a sizable portion of the people I’ve talked to felt like she was appointed instead of being elected, which is a bad move when public trust in our institutions is already at an all time low.
This is all excuses. The fact that Trump made it all the way as the primary candidate for the GOP means that Republicans were okay with what he said and what he did.
For a normal person, it shouldn’t even take a second to choose Harris. But this isn’t the case. Trump won the popular vote and the presidency despite all the crazy shit because a sizeable part of the citizens voted him in regardless of the reason.
And not only that, but Republicans won the senate and well on their way to win the house.
It is about to get real bad, and Americans have themselves to blame for that.
Institutional democrats who thought they knew what they were doing and could ignore the base of the party is to blame. Biden being top of the list. Stubborn self assured who when finally pushed to change was only willing to do it on his terms. And made a decision for everyone, again.
One of the big stories is a Democratic party Mayor of a super Blue city being corrupt and organizing police to defend him and yet not a single member of the party has spoken out against it. Endorsed by Hakeem Jeffries.
Status quo is far more important than listening to their base right now and hopefully it changes instead of them once again thinking they need to head further right.
And for the love all things holy I hope the Democrats learn to stop “gaming” the election with specific counties in “blue walls” because they did advanced math that told them it was all they needed. Bare minimum should never have been the goal.
The people you talked to are bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by any of that shit - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.
You’re hearing the thing they hope their neighbor would think of them after the fact, " I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy detail… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".
Your neighbor fucking sucks, Bill - this is the time you pause, take a breath, and fully internalize that to inform your future interactions.
Shit dude, I’m far left, believed that the only way to protect democracy was to vote for Harris, and then did it, but even I felt like she was appointed. Nobody wanted her as a first choice but we were forced to accept her when she succeeded Biden. She got 14 million less votes than Biden did in 2020. That isn’t only because she’s a black woman. It certainly plays a part, but we can’t act like it wasn’t just general voter malaise that led to this outcome.
It’s not “just” the fact that she has a vagina, its that that was always going to be the deciding factor. There’s nuance in understanding the distinction there.
So your argument is that she got 14 million less votes than Joe specifically because she’s a woman? Because I struggle to see how it could be the “deciding factor” otherwise.
I agree, it’s an oversimplification. The Democratic party has become the party of ‘going back to business as usual’ and refuses to lower it’s commitment to the corporations that fund it. Trump won 2016 because he was a genuine establishment shaker.
Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.
Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.
Democrats have proven that they will sue to strip such a person from the ballot. How can they claim to defend democracy while hiding behind First-past-the-post voting?
Because first past the post voting is a form of democracy, whether or not either of us have qualms with it. What is not democratic, in any way, shape, or form, is disrupting the peaceful transfer of power, which Trump has literally done, not to mention the intended destruction of the federal system under project 2025, which based on your response, I can tell you’ve done no research into.
Are the parties both bad? Sure. Is one objectively and provably better for the democratic institutions of the US? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Yes. That is their argument. Because most men of alll races, and even most white women favored him. He got less votes than 2020, and won the popular, got a trifecta.
The distinction between the candidates was clear enough:
I will lower your taxes (for billionaires), I don’t like immigrants, and I will say all the stuff you think and the lefties made it bad to say. Also if I don’t win I’m going to jail because, for enough money I will do whatever you want (for Russia, Elon, or anyone else).
I am an actual qualified candidate.
There was no choice. It was taxes and fear and tribalism with a special sprinkle of election interference attempts around the horn.
She was appointed? So what? Elect her because she’s a better choice, then fix that problem.
She was appointed? So what? Elect her because she’s a better choice, then fix that problem.
I think the issue (well one of many) with this line of thinking is that as she was appointed, even if elected she would not have been fairly elected. An issue with the Dems for many years now. People vote against things more then for them and the USA voted for trump over Harris. That nothing seems to have been learned other then “she should have won” or “maybe if we go farther right it will work this time” is a real mindfuck.
The Dems could “fix” that problem (since it is a party problem) but they don’t, ever. This is as much a failing of the Democratic party as the failure of American democracy collapsing into a two party system.
I remember hearing many democrats that joked how they voted for the white side of Obama. It wasn’t funny and isn’t funny now. They are not only voting against a woman but one of color.
We are going let christian fascism take control of America because a large portion of our population is sexiest, and racist. Not to mention all those protest votes or fucker who sat on their couch rather than do the right thing.
She was doing better than the old white guy she replaced though
Was she really though? She couldnt identify a single thing she’d do differently than Biden, who has a truly remarkable and historic level of low approval.
She had excitement and energy, then said she’d do nothing different than Biden. Lost a lot of energy. Got Time Waltz, more energy, and then the party told him “stop calling Vance weird” and we lost more energy.
She had a better shot at talking trump, she just loved to shoot herself in the foot.
What does “doing better” mean to you in this day and age in that context? Polls are no longer a viable tool. They are captured, manipulated and heavily biased. They ask misleading questions and ask them of non-representative populations.
Very big difference between “doing better” in “the race” and casting your vote on election day. Again, gramma in Pennsylvania didn’t think Kamala was doing better, or really she didn’t care what she was doing, because there was just one “key issue” that gramma would never get onboard with for Kamala… Gramma didn’t talk about that issue during “the race”, but she was thinking about it when she pulled the lever.
Oh yeah. But it’s people’s perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It’s fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.
But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven’t been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.
It’s not impossible to see how the perceptions got to where they are.
Oh yeah. But it’s people’s perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It’s fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.
But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven’t been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.
Why does the love of the working class have to be fake?!?!?!?
Holy fucking hell, democrats have lost their mind.
While this is a large part of it, a significant thing I think is that you get a lot more enthusiasm voting for something than against something. If she was campaigning for things I didn’t hear it above the constant “orange shit is an orange shit”.
A number of terrorist bomb threats to predominantly democratic polling locations in swing states and other fuckery may have also played a role.
Well start figuring out how to get it as a ballot measure in your state now then do what’s left of our democracy a favor, swallow your pettiness and vote for the lesser evil until you get RCV in your area.
Greens and other parties are only doing favors for the facists as things stand right now.
Setting aside whether she would’ve won had she been a white man, she could’ve made up for that handicap by appealing to the right people if she had actually been trying to win. Pinning it completely on her race and sex simply ignores her absolute failure of a campaign.
I get more the sense that people don’t care about her so much - or him either for that matter - so much as how things in general just “feel wrong”. I’m no expert but the news media having been bought out seems a likely culprit. Jon Stewart tried to warn us but we would not listen. He did his part, but if people don’t value things, they tend to fall - or in this case be taken - apart.
Should have stuck with the British Monarchy, powerless as it comes. A woman as head of state for 70 years and even better, no elections for any president during any of time.
You people are about to overdose on copium. This is a lazy view. “she lost because of race and sex”. You need to really ask people why she couldn’t secure their vote.
The “Run Up” podcast had an episode following the Working Families Party while they were out knocking on doors for Harris in a poor projects type neighborhood. The first lady they talk to is hesitant to vote for Harris because she’s a prosecutor who jailed black men for weed. While they are talking and the canvasser is trying to convince her, her neighbor jumps in and he says something to the effect of “Harris is a woman and world leaders won’t respect her and get us in a lot of trouble”.
Is sexism/racism the reason Harris lost? No, I personally at this point think it has more to do with the Democratic party’s inability to offer solutions for working families - Dems are the center right party representing corporate interests and the elite while paying lip service to actual regular people, MAGA is viewed as the party of the common man, as bullshit as that is it’s what voters feel. I personally think the only way forward is an actual progressive platform which addresses fundamental economic unfairness in the system, and candidates who can connect to and explain that platform to regular folk of all races and demographics.
But you can’t deny that sexism/racism didn’t play a significant role in the loss.
Hearing a sexist comment once is not evidence of wide spread sexism. You’re allowing your personal views to color your objective view. Show me dozens of videos of someone saying they won’t vote for Harris because of her sex or race and I might think otherwise. Isolated incidents don’t mean much.
I think blue conservatives want everyone to be thinking it’s about sex or race because that would pin the blame on the voters, rather then the poltical party itself.
I used to respond to people like you carefully and in some depth, with the hope that others who needed the words could read mine and feel indirectly supported.
I’m not doing that today. My original statement stands, you’re statement is the way you are personally trying to accept the guilt, shame or disappointment in this reality, I’ll leave it at that.
Plain and simple… She was a woman, and a black person - There will be months of tap dancing and “deep” analysis, but we’re just an ugly, atrophied, broken, racist and patriarchal nation, like deep down in our DNA. We were able to elect Obama, yes - he is half white, and a man (those weren’t the loud messages as they attacked him, but Pennsylvania gramma knew those things quietly when she pulled the lever for him). It’s not satisfying, but it’s just the plain truth here. We’re closer to getting over race than we are over sex.
Plenty of deliberate work has been done, mostly by republicans, to keep America stupid, poor and in untreated pain, yes… But we’re also just trash on the whole. We raise trash and we vote for trash. We just aren’t smarter than social algorithms, TV soap opera narratives, costumes and makeup. “The pretend business man is white, old, wears a tie and has a gold watch. He feels like how daddy felt when I was little, and when things are bad, daddy fixed them the way I remember it.”
Video game trolls, people who failed the cop application physical and triple DUI wine moms are America. No further explanation or analysis needed.
Dems had the house for 12 years the past 16. Nothing really changed.
People have claimed Harris wasn’t capable of leading. They got their undeserved confirmation when she turned out to be a no show for 14 hours yesterday.
You construct a Strawman. If the Dems pulled a capable and charismatic woman out of the top hat she would be able to win.
Obama was a unique situation in that he was both an incredibly charismatic JFK-style figure and ran after the Republicans had managed to both start a very unpopular war and destroy the world economy.
Barack Obama also never released a campaign ad that said “Hey white dudes, we only think some of you suck.”
You mind linking me to that ad?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OJbIMF8dTVA&pp=ygUQaGFycmlzIG1lbidzIGFkZA%3D%3D
Idk, as a white guy, that’s more cringe than offensive. Maybe that’s because I live in the South and can pass for a redneck, but I hear some vile shit from those other white guys fairly often.
Offensive isn’t quite the word for it.
The part that bothers me is that the DNC couldn’t put together genuine sounding messaging to men when American democracy itself hung in the balance. Dooming my nation because they absolutely couldn’t bring themselves to drop the identity politics is a transgression I don’t think I can ever forgive.
“hey white dudes! …no not you…the other white dudes.”
Don’t like those ads? Should’ve stopped proving them right. We will go to the grave blaming you and your ilk now
Weird hill to die on
Those nakedly misandrist ads were brought to my attention after I cast my ballot.
I’ve never voted for a Republican in my life, but the Democrats will have to actually earn my vote if they ever run a candidate again, they may no longer expect me.
Blame me as much as you want, you’re going to anyway. I’m the bad guy even when voting your way so what’sthe point? Those who cannot bring themselves to speak to me with respect to literally save their lives can die as mad as they want.
I take it you dont much care WHY misandey is on the rise
Not even a little.
I voted for Harris walz, but I think a lot of this is the fault of Biden for trying to run for reelection and sticking it out until July. I live in the south and I think the lack of a primary reallly hurt the ticket because a sizable portion of the people I’ve talked to felt like she was appointed instead of being elected, which is a bad move when public trust in our institutions is already at an all time low.
This is all excuses. The fact that Trump made it all the way as the primary candidate for the GOP means that Republicans were okay with what he said and what he did.
For a normal person, it shouldn’t even take a second to choose Harris. But this isn’t the case. Trump won the popular vote and the presidency despite all the crazy shit because a sizeable part of the citizens voted him in regardless of the reason.
And not only that, but Republicans won the senate and well on their way to win the house.
It is about to get real bad, and Americans have themselves to blame for that.
Institutional democrats who thought they knew what they were doing and could ignore the base of the party is to blame. Biden being top of the list. Stubborn self assured who when finally pushed to change was only willing to do it on his terms. And made a decision for everyone, again.
One of the big stories is a Democratic party Mayor of a super Blue city being corrupt and organizing police to defend him and yet not a single member of the party has spoken out against it. Endorsed by Hakeem Jeffries.
Status quo is far more important than listening to their base right now and hopefully it changes instead of them once again thinking they need to head further right.
And for the love all things holy I hope the Democrats learn to stop “gaming” the election with specific counties in “blue walls” because they did advanced math that told them it was all they needed. Bare minimum should never have been the goal.
The people you talked to are bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by any of that shit - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.
You’re hearing the thing they hope their neighbor would think of them after the fact, " I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy detail… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".
Your neighbor fucking sucks, Bill - this is the time you pause, take a breath, and fully internalize that to inform your future interactions.
Shit dude, I’m far left, believed that the only way to protect democracy was to vote for Harris, and then did it, but even I felt like she was appointed. Nobody wanted her as a first choice but we were forced to accept her when she succeeded Biden. She got 14 million less votes than Biden did in 2020. That isn’t only because she’s a black woman. It certainly plays a part, but we can’t act like it wasn’t just general voter malaise that led to this outcome.
It’s not “just” the fact that she has a vagina, its that that was always going to be the deciding factor. There’s nuance in understanding the distinction there.
So your argument is that she got 14 million less votes than Joe specifically because she’s a woman? Because I struggle to see how it could be the “deciding factor” otherwise.
I agree, it’s an oversimplification. The Democratic party has become the party of ‘going back to business as usual’ and refuses to lower it’s commitment to the corporations that fund it. Trump won 2016 because he was a genuine establishment shaker.
Leftists need a rouge candidate who refuses to bow. Someone who shows promise of CHANGE and not business as usual.
Democrats have proven that they will sue to strip such a person from the ballot. How can they claim to defend democracy while hiding behind First-past-the-post voting?
Because first past the post voting is a form of democracy, whether or not either of us have qualms with it. What is not democratic, in any way, shape, or form, is disrupting the peaceful transfer of power, which Trump has literally done, not to mention the intended destruction of the federal system under project 2025, which based on your response, I can tell you’ve done no research into.
Are the parties both bad? Sure. Is one objectively and provably better for the democratic institutions of the US? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Yes. That is their argument. Because most men of alll races, and even most white women favored him. He got less votes than 2020, and won the popular, got a trifecta.
None of it should factor. At all.
The distinction between the candidates was clear enough:
I will lower your taxes (for billionaires), I don’t like immigrants, and I will say all the stuff you think and the lefties made it bad to say. Also if I don’t win I’m going to jail because, for enough money I will do whatever you want (for Russia, Elon, or anyone else).
I am an actual qualified candidate.
There was no choice. It was taxes and fear and tribalism with a special sprinkle of election interference attempts around the horn.
She was appointed? So what? Elect her because she’s a better choice, then fix that problem.
I think the issue (well one of many) with this line of thinking is that as she was appointed, even if elected she would not have been fairly elected. An issue with the Dems for many years now. People vote against things more then for them and the USA voted for trump over Harris. That nothing seems to have been learned other then “she should have won” or “maybe if we go farther right it will work this time” is a real mindfuck.
The Dems could “fix” that problem (since it is a party problem) but they don’t, ever. This is as much a failing of the Democratic party as the failure of American democracy collapsing into a two party system.
100%
I remember hearing many democrats that joked how they voted for the white side of Obama. It wasn’t funny and isn’t funny now. They are not only voting against a woman but one of color.
We are going let christian fascism take control of America because a large portion of our population is sexiest, and racist. Not to mention all those protest votes or fucker who sat on their couch rather than do the right thing.
Now we are all fucked.
This reads like straight out of disco elysium. Great choice of words
Thanks, I still need to play it. Maybe a good distraction for a bit to regroup and prepare for a rough road ahead.
It’s definitely worth your time. It’ll likely make you laugh occasionally, too.
Are you gonna replay as sad cop lol
She was doing better than the old white guy she replaced though
Was she really though? She couldnt identify a single thing she’d do differently than Biden, who has a truly remarkable and historic level of low approval.
She had excitement and energy, then said she’d do nothing different than Biden. Lost a lot of energy. Got Time Waltz, more energy, and then the party told him “stop calling Vance weird” and we lost more energy.
She had a better shot at talking trump, she just loved to shoot herself in the foot.
According to the polls she was. Not sure how’d else you’d measure it, really.
Until she woke up one day and thought she was Republican.
So many republican endorsements. And each one was so very publicly celebrated. Ugh.
The true lesson is the one the Democrats will never, ever learn.
What does “doing better” mean to you in this day and age in that context? Polls are no longer a viable tool. They are captured, manipulated and heavily biased. They ask misleading questions and ask them of non-representative populations.
Very big difference between “doing better” in “the race” and casting your vote on election day. Again, gramma in Pennsylvania didn’t think Kamala was doing better, or really she didn’t care what she was doing, because there was just one “key issue” that gramma would never get onboard with for Kamala… Gramma didn’t talk about that issue during “the race”, but she was thinking about it when she pulled the lever.
Polls, obviously.
I don’t think it’s just the fact that she’s a black/Asian woman.
I saw this on BBC News which is probably correct:
Frankly, that just shows hollywood is overhated and voters are stupid
“Imagined” is perhaps the right word considering he wanted to raise taxes for low income people, and lower taxes for rich people.
Oh yeah. But it’s people’s perceptions that everyone is hunting for anyways. It’s fake love for the working class in the way the rich love their butler but will replace him if he ever gets sick.
But that perception and the story of the party is super important and how to win elections. The Democrats haven’t been chasing that identity and let it slip while trying to figure out who should be the candidate that cost the least amount of money for its donors.
It’s not impossible to see how the perceptions got to where they are.
Why does the love of the working class have to be fake?!?!?!?
Holy fucking hell, democrats have lost their mind.
While this is a large part of it, a significant thing I think is that you get a lot more enthusiasm voting for something than against something. If she was campaigning for things I didn’t hear it above the constant “orange shit is an orange shit”.
A number of terrorist bomb threats to predominantly democratic polling locations in swing states and other fuckery may have also played a role.
Maybe care about things. Voting against him should’ve been enough to elect a ham sandwhich
Yeah, well, I did my part. ml and hexbear certainly didn’t.
Cool, were im the minority, and if libs and progressives cant learn to swallow down each others candidates, the american left in general is cooked
False choice dilemma.
Democrats need to swallow their pride and arrogance and admit to themselves that they shouldn’t be going solo against the republicans.
Do away with First Past The Post voting in blue states and let more players onto the field. This fight is bigger then the democratic party.
Well start figuring out how to get it as a ballot measure in your state now then do what’s left of our democracy a favor, swallow your pettiness and vote for the lesser evil until you get RCV in your area.
Greens and other parties are only doing favors for the facists as things stand right now.
libs swallow even once challenge
Setting aside whether she would’ve won had she been a white man, she could’ve made up for that handicap by appealing to the right people if she had actually been trying to win. Pinning it completely on her race and sex simply ignores her absolute failure of a campaign.
And you’re an expert on ignoring failure
I get more the sense that people don’t care about her so much - or him either for that matter - so much as how things in general just “feel wrong”. I’m no expert but the news media having been bought out seems a likely culprit. Jon Stewart tried to warn us but we would not listen. He did his part, but if people don’t value things, they tend to fall - or in this case be taken - apart.
Should have stuck with the British Monarchy, powerless as it comes. A woman as head of state for 70 years and even better, no elections for any president during any of time.
Slowly but surely I’m coming to terms with our modern reality
Totally agree. After all the progress the US is still not ready to accept anyone else than white men at the top.
You people are about to overdose on copium. This is a lazy view. “she lost because of race and sex”. You need to really ask people why she couldn’t secure their vote.
The “Run Up” podcast had an episode following the Working Families Party while they were out knocking on doors for Harris in a poor projects type neighborhood. The first lady they talk to is hesitant to vote for Harris because she’s a prosecutor who jailed black men for weed. While they are talking and the canvasser is trying to convince her, her neighbor jumps in and he says something to the effect of “Harris is a woman and world leaders won’t respect her and get us in a lot of trouble”.
Is sexism/racism the reason Harris lost? No, I personally at this point think it has more to do with the Democratic party’s inability to offer solutions for working families - Dems are the center right party representing corporate interests and the elite while paying lip service to actual regular people, MAGA is viewed as the party of the common man, as bullshit as that is it’s what voters feel. I personally think the only way forward is an actual progressive platform which addresses fundamental economic unfairness in the system, and candidates who can connect to and explain that platform to regular folk of all races and demographics.
But you can’t deny that sexism/racism didn’t play a significant role in the loss.
Hearing a sexist comment once is not evidence of wide spread sexism. You’re allowing your personal views to color your objective view. Show me dozens of videos of someone saying they won’t vote for Harris because of her sex or race and I might think otherwise. Isolated incidents don’t mean much.
You just completely miss the point.
Internalized means no showy uppy on video, ding dong
Please provide evidence of all this internalization of which you speak.
I think blue conservatives want everyone to be thinking it’s about sex or race because that would pin the blame on the voters, rather then the poltical party itself.
I used to respond to people like you carefully and in some depth, with the hope that others who needed the words could read mine and feel indirectly supported.
I’m not doing that today. My original statement stands, you’re statement is the way you are personally trying to accept the guilt, shame or disappointment in this reality, I’ll leave it at that.
“my view is right because it’s mine. Yours is wrong because it’s not mine”
No guilt, disappointment, or shame in my game. My life is pretty great.
Actually says a lot about you if you can say that in this moment. Thanks for that clarity.
Yes, it says I’m a normal person living a normal life and I don’t live my life perpetually online and have not become a radical. Cheers mate.