- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
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Wonder how this would’ve gone down if all the protesters were also armed. All. Of. Them.
Somebody’s starting to get the point of right to bear arms.
Remember when it was a common opinion in the left part of the Web that you should defend your rights legally, whatever that would mean if defending rights is usually done against the law trampling them.
Plenty of possibilities. Standoff, not happened, bloodbath…. I’m leaning towards “not happened”. These Stasi have proven time and again that they like to go for easy targets that are low risk. Kids in school, women, old people…
A group of armed people surrounding police and trying to free a prisoner is a bloodbath waiting to happen. If you threaten police with guns, they can and will use guns as self defense.
and blue areas, if they hit red areas where the illegal immigration is actually going, the gop and magats would be raising hell.
Do protesters ever try snatching the masks off these guys?
typically the goal of a protester is to protest as long as they can without being arrested and avoid escalation. these ICE goons are itching for someone, ANYONE, to give them a reason
There were plenty of people getting into physical altercations with the officers in the video. The officers used batons to keep them at a distance. There were plenty of reasons to arrest people here. The video doesn’t show any.
I’ve been wondering if basic prank tactics can work like fucking with their mask.
Pull the mask up over the eyes. Snip the mall ninja utility belt. Pants them.
Or toss their hat real quick. Pull the mask up and zip tie it closed above their head. They will be forced to pull it off their head all together.
Such things would require outnumbering each of them by multiples of course.
Seems like there used to be something like that for officals that were getting a little big for their britches. You’d grab them and dress them up like big chickens.
Guess you’d need some feathers, maybe some tar to make sure it sticks real good.
I’m wondering if you could get recognition positive pictures by bombarding them with high lumen IR lights and an IR camera. it would essentially “see through” the mask like those thin blouses women wore that ultimately were exposed by the same method.
That’s also a good idea, but I was thinking more about exposing identities, so their houses can be burned down or whatnot.
Snip the mall ninja utility belt.
Those things are layers of webbing and cardboard/plastic. Better and easier to use a seatbelt cutter on any straps you can reach.
I bet tin snips would go right through them
If they see you with tin snips they’ll mace you immediately for approaching with a perceived weapon. Seatbelt cutters are compact and not recognizable.
I’d take you up on that. Never had tin snippers, but even sharp gardening shears go havoc on bendy stuff that gives.
Im surprised the street gangs or criminal elements in these cities haven’t popped a few ice agents by now
in a place like sf unlikely, maybe in LA in the 90s
The presence of such people in San Francisco is wildly overstated by the media.
If they wear masks and don’t identify themselves they are simply a criminal, and you can stand your ground.
That’s why we haven’t seen these cowards in Oklahoma. We are allowed to open carry without a license and can stand our ground here. Just waiting for one of these fucks to try this shit here. They will need to bring body bags.
Lol might want to put “ice Oklahoma” in a search engine.
The only problem with that sort of bravado is that the ICE agents are seldom alone, and it’s a fair bet there are even more waiting as backup in vehicles nearby. If somebody starts shooting at one of them it’s going to stir up a huge hornets nest that will likely result in a significant number of casualties.
Edit: Oh, and ICE has indeed been operating in Oklahoma to some extent since at least April.
they wont hit super red areas, it will alienate thier base, and rile them up the gop as well.
and the cops are on ICE’s side. so if shooting starts, well…
Same in Florida but without open carry. It’s on the table, but probably won’t fly. Who knows. I didn’t care until the Gestapo deployed to non-armed cities and states. Now I fucking want it.
It’s kinda hard when they are packing more heat and military equipment. Also let’s be honest, if a single protestor shoots back, it will end up in a massacre.
The crowd backed off after managing to free protesters held by agents. One ICE officer yelled, “We’ll get you next time!” while walking backward.
Numbers. As long as the crowd has numbers, they will give up. Send them packing with their tails between their legs.
But…they didnt give up. The original target was taken.
When this is over, we are going to have to try, convict, and hang thousands of ICE agents for crimes against humanity. They are committing capital offenses. Many of them need to hang for this.
I don’t think history has ever shown that the government will prosecute agents of the law for doing what the government told them to do.
Considering the US history handling nazis post WW2, i bet y’all gonna give them a promotion!
Skip the trying and convicting. Straight to hanging.
They’re in the wrong but the whole point is everyone should be allowed due process.
Considering how the 1st Reconstruction got cancelled, and the Nazi elements that persist in Germany, I think that there is a great deal of evidence that mercy doesn’t work against systemic evils. The whole concept of Nazi, Confederate, and now MAGAT, ideology should go on trial…with death being the sentence if a whole class of participants are found guilty.
Worked for ICE? You die.
It isn’t kind, nor just. But this disease of evil needs to be uprooted, else it will spread into future generations of the nation. The Confederates and Nazis have proven this.
You are advocating for an authoritarian tyranny and a reign of terror worse than what is currently happening.
There is a risk of bad outcomes, true. Unfortunately, I don’t see a good way to remove the cancer of the Confederacy.
As to what is currently happening, I suspect the blood of many innocent people will stain the soil of Florida in the coming years. They never did anything to warrant their suffering.
That is a key difference concerning ICE, Border Patrol, Trump, Thiel, and so many other willing members of the Trump Regime: they wanted people to die, just because. Offering mercy to someone who thought it was alright to send children to die in the Florida heat, they probably won’t reflect on the morality of their actions.
At what point, does mercy become naivety?
The reason most civilized nations have removed the death penalty is that even in modern criminal cases, at least one in five convicted persons are innocent.
If you lock someone up, there is the possibility of releasing them and providing them with an income to say sorry for taking most of their life away. If you execute them, nothing can be done to make amends - it is a final and irreversible step.
I cannot even imagine the kind of kangaroo justice that would be encouraged by attempting to go after anyone involved in this current state of affairs. If we get things wrong 20% of the time with a stable society, how well are we going to fare on establishing guilt when we’re trying to quickly process tens of thousands of stormtrooper cosplayers? Yes, they’re probably horrible, horrible people, but I think extreme repercussions should be reserved for ringleaders and people in a decision making capacity. Even then, we should stop short of killing them.
I am fairly sure the people on the ground acting out will have the rest of their lives to process the trauma they’ve inflicted on themselves, their communities and their victims - and many of them won’t be able to come to grips with it in this lifetime.
The Confederates in America got off easy, and look what their descendants have become: MAGATs. What that tells me, is that the confederates were only sorry for losing, not that they processed trauma and developed empathy.
It would be good if your path works. Unfortunately, I cannot find the faith to believe in your position.
The concentration camps of CECOT and Alligator Auschwitz shouldn’t exist. Noem Kristi making light of 65 million latino lives as alligator feed, it doesn’t inspire confidence in the humanity of whom I once considered to be American. I will hope you are right, but I cannot wager on it.
They’ll just make you the Nazi\ICE\whatever. Similarly with “antisemitism”.
So better don’t.
It might feel counterintuitive, but softness and humanism work. While all this “we need to be cruel” shit doesn’t. It just allows your enemy to change coats when you’re not looking and then bring you to the guillotine.
There’s also a whole lot of evidence that hangings don’t work.
I would 10 times rather have lived in postwar Germany than in post revolution France, China, Russia…
Reconstruction is probably the one time that I know of when they were too lenient. Jefferson Davis of all people basically just walked free, and then on down. We’re still paying the price to this day for the betrayal of everything the union soldiers died for. But IDK how you can look at the history of blood thirst and lack of due process, after the revolution, and say “Yeah let’s do that I sure super want to live in that country.”
Honestly, I do not know how harsh things should be. Part of the problem, is that it isn’t clear how we convince neoconfederates from being what they are. Talk of peace, empathy, and cooperation doesn’t seem to move the needle with MAGA.
My impression, is that either they are only keyed to self-preservation in the face of extreme consequences, or simply lack the humanity to ever become better people if mercy was offered. Either way, it feels like a blunt solution is the only reliable way to remove MAGA from existence. It is my hope that by making it clear to MAGA aligned people what will happen if things go on, would make them reconsider…but if not, then at least I and others would become mentally prepared to force them to rest.
When peace isn’t a option, violence is inevitable. If that has to be the way, I know whom I prefer to be removed from the mortal coil. Hopefully, it won’t come to that. But hope isn’t reliable.
This whole situation is rotten. 😞
This whole situation is rotten. 😞
Completely agree. Democracy just can’t function if a third of the people in the country don’t want it, and just want their faction to rule by force, and that’s where we’re at right now.
All I’m saying is that postwar Germany is probably the best I am aware of out of a selection of bad historical precedents for how you recover from that situation into something approximating a stable and safe society. Organized trials with due process for anyone who killed innocent people or otherwise participated in the worst of the horrors, and acceptance of the idea that a lot of people, especially at the bottom of the org chart, just aren’t going to “get it” that anything that they did was wrong.
I think once the tribalism gets engaged firmly in people’s heads, where their faction is the one with God on its side and anyone who’s an enemy deserves to be snuffed out, you can’t really fix them from the outside. They have to either come to it themselves, or not, and in the meantime life has to move on as best it can. The problem with Germany as a precedent is that there was someone from outside to come and impose it…
And then the reichwing president gives them all pardons.
Nah. These fuckers are openly admitting they are mass murderers reveling in the number of us they can kill. In this case alone, the only good fascist is a dead fascist, they chose to harm us, so we don’t need to go through all the rigamarole of prosecuting such dangerous people to the community. Their actions speak louder than any words they could ever say in their defense. The only good fascist is a dead fascist. Shoot, stab, and string these traitors up every chance you get.
I already am.
You’re missing the point. It doesn’t matter how obvious their guilt is. We still need a formal process.
We should never trust the government, or any authority, to call someone a criminal outright.
Not to mention that capital punishment is barbaric. Yes, they are acting barbaric as well, but we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.
I’m with you, and I’m all for due process. However, I have some questions that I would like to ask, as you seem well grounded.
Are soldiers in a war that engage in active combat due the civil treatment of due process before they’re retaliated against?
What constitutes a soldier in this case? Uniforms? Acting against people without any expectation of due process holding them accountable? State sanctioned? I must be missing something.
Isn’t the states desire to suspend habeas corpus a tacit admission of desire for civil war against ones own peoples?
I’m a bit confused – at what point we’re supposed to defend ourselves and not rely on due process? What is the proverbial line-in-the-sand where tolerance cedes way for intolerance – especially in regards to fascism?
I think I must be missing something. Due process is great, but it doesn’t stop people from killing my family. It just holds them accountable after the fact. I’m not necessarily agreeing with the one you’re disagreeing with, I’m just wondering if your sense of tolerance will protect my loved ones from violent fascists and I’m starting to get the sense that doesn’t matter. I’m starting to get the sense that others will tell me I’m wrong for using violent means to protect myself and others from violence and I hope I’m wrong about that. Not trying to be disingenuous.
Exactly, this isn’t to find the innocent among ice, it’s to put the expected behavior of the justice system into place so that way it doesn’t have a precedent like this. If we go from one government that ignores trial tights to another we aren’t getting the rule of law, and governments don’t cede power out of the goodness of their hearts. It’s also to establish and maintain legitimacy.
The Nuremberg trials are the gold standard for a reason. The crimes were established, laid out, and the obviously guilty had the opportunity to defend themselves. This means that no legitimate historians doubt the crimes against humanity and the degree to which all 11 sentenced to execution (ten hanged, Göring killed himself after being sentenced) were responsible.
Part of why fair trials are so good is that they serve as a steel man to your right to punish. And right now that matters.
The point of the due process is to determine that they were in fact one of these people. Due process doesn’t mean no conviction, it means no witch hunts
They don’t want to follow the rules of Habeus Corpus, then those rules don’t apply to the fascists. The rest of us want those rules, and therefore they should apply. I’m just giving them exactly what they want applied only to them.
I saw AngryCommieKender working for ICE! No due process for them to make sure I didn’t make a mistake or lie, straight to hanging!
Ah yes, the real and very successful strategy of fighting fire with more fire. Let’s just go more fascist in the other direction, that’ll show em!
My dude, I get that you’re angry, but think about your ideas for a second before ejaculating them onto the Internet.
Confirming that they are actually ICE and that they did terrible things IS WHAT IS NECESSARY FOR JUSTICE. Letting people randomly accuse others and having that accusation lead to a literal hanging is not justice. If that’s not what you mean then SAY WHAT YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE. We are real human beings having a conversation, not competing for Internet points.
Mate without due process you don’t know who’s getting hanged for what. ‘I saw _____(name whatever neighbor you don’t like) collaborating with ice’ becomes a death sentence . If you’re so unconcerned with hanging innocents congrats, you’re the fascist now
If it’s so obvious then due process should be a slam dunk.
They don’t want due process. Give them what they want.
They don’t want due process.
Yes and you’re advocating for what they want, which makes you just as bad as them. Everyone has a right to due process, not just nice people.
I am so gratified to see the rate of downvotes on your nonsense, and the number of people trying to talk sense into you in addition.
Fascism?
They even sound like cartoon villains.
And I would’ve gotten away with it too, if it weren’t for those meddling protestors!
more like team rocket jesse and james, they come in all planning and calculated, but ends up easily getting sent flying.
Jesse & James are far to woke and empathetic though. Several of their failures are because they couldn’t go through with plan with enough ruthlessness. Other groups of Team Rocket often have more initial success by having a lot less empathy.
King Richard feels more appropriate. A pathetic calculating advisor hamstrung by running damage control for the mewling lion having a tantrum.
So, this is purely for educational purposes, like googling jury nullification, but people should be aware of what a police “Stop Stick” is and how the police use them.
They’re basically constructed out of stuff from the hardware store: a 2-3ft foam triangle cut from a sheet with a utility knife, ~2" steel tubes cut to a syringe-like point on either end and glued to the three faces of the triangle, then the whole thing wrapped in paper or fabric. When a vehicle runs one over the foam crushes and the tube-needles instantly deflate the tire. You can drive for a few minutes after being hit (until the now flat tire disintegrates and you’re on the rim) but they work by…strongly deterring…someone from driving forward because of the amount of damage they cause and rendering the vehicle much less capable when trying to escape a persuit.
this is the best way because it takes away ICE’s biggest advantage. they are terrorists. they come out of nowhere, strike, and disappear again. their mobility gives them an enormous advantage. taking their biggest advantage away from them is the biggest thing you can do.
courts try to threaten people who say jury nullification when your being selected voir dire, its better to say you dont believe in this or tha tlaw, or you dont like that person to show bias so you wont get selected, i have a summons coming up. if you try to say this on reddit or another forum they will try gatekeep jury duty. they choose dummies to be on the juries, the smart ones get out of it.
I see these posts and think “boy, I sure hope none of these anti-ICE people used laser pointers on themasked stazi… Sure would be a shame to use prime day to buy a load of laser pointers and hand them out”
Yeah or use infared lasers outside the visual spectrum and high wattage… they wouldnt see it coming. Sun glasses wouldnt stop the light either. But I never said this.
Be careful though because laser lights reflect and blind unintended targets.
deleted by creator
10 Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, almost all with faces covered, tried to enter the courthouse at 100 Montgomery St. They were there to escort other agents already inside, who had a young immigrant man in custody. ICE has been routinely arresting asylum-seekers following their immigration hearings
are helping immigrants apply to have their hearings held online. Press release on the subject. Spread the word!Its self defense to stop ICE.
Cowards. These people are cowards. Unmask and dox these pathetic humans.
I’m surprised that hasn’t happened yet.
You know these people have to sleep at some point.
iirc there was (may still be ongoing) protests at hotels ICE agents where staying at with the goal of not letting them get sleep…
wink
Hard to watch. Those people are brave as hell. Need more like them, a lot, lot more.
That video is a brutal watch. I hope everyone is ok.
I couldn’t even watch it all because of the pointless screaming.
You: “pointless screaming”
Reality: people actually getting hit by thousands of pounds of metal.
You’re already cooked or already a fucking piece of shit if that’s your takeaway…
Dude, the screaming went on for minutes before any vehicle entered the scene.
Ikr? I wish there was a volume slider somewhere to turn the volume down or a seeker to skip ahead. But, NO, I have to endure all of it. 😭
Skill issue
Why has no one taken to nabbing their fascist fratboi hats like trophies? Not that it’ll do much but I’m sure that some of them are wearing their favorite hat while committing these crimes.
They probably have their names written in them, just like their mommies used to do.
I believe Trump is deploying ICE agents in premium real estate locations. Of course they are sprinked throughout but think about it. He floated the idea with Gaza to until everyone reacted to his AI video.
