Just have to vote for Dems and there’s a decent chance 9/11 wouldn’t have happened, so no Afghanistan, Iraq wouldn’t have happened, pandemic would’ve been handled better and the pandemic response plan wouldn’t have been axed, and we wouldn’t have bombed Iran. Not to mention women would still have health care.
The problem is the Democratic Party isn’t a working class/labor party. The Democratic Party’s primarily purpose is to occupy space on the political spectrum and prevent the rise of a true workers party. There will never be a time to walk away, abandon a clearly irredeemably broken edifice, and build something new. It will always be the most important election of your life, and you will always be a traitor to your nation for daring to suggest it’s time to scrap the morbidly obese old man, fused into his couch, sucking up all the oxygen out of the room on the left side of the political spectrum.
Where do you get that idea? The Trump admin has only been in place for five months. The strike the US just carried out took years of planning. Trump’s attack on Iran was just a continuation of Biden admin policy.
All the evidence I’ve seen my whole adult life is that the Democrats, or at least the Democratic leadership structure, are just as bloodthirsty and warmongering as the Republican leadership.
We don’t actually know that Dems wouldn’t have been pushing an Iraq war. Ultimately the real push for the war came from the Israeli leadership, and the Israelis control both the Democratic and Republican parties. Israel ultimately decides US Middle East policy, not the American citizens. What party you vote for has very little impact on it. That’s the conclusion you reach if you look at the actual evidence, not just the vibes that each party likes to portray. The Dems like to portray themselves as some 1960s peace-nicks, but both parties let Israel control their entire Middle East policy. Israel wanted to invade Iraq, and that was going to happen regardless of what party was in power.
Maybe the Dems would have handled the Iraq war a little more competently, but Saddam had been a villain in the US media for years. People were talking about invading Iraq while the bodies at ground zero hadn’t even cooled off.
Gore supported invading Iraq. The majority of Democrats in the US Senate supported Iraq. What evidence do you have that a Democratic president wouldn’t have invaded Iraq? I think the only case is vibes-based.
Militaries work on plans for everything. I would be surprised if they didn’t have a plan to invade nearly every country on Earth. It’s what the military does. The decision is made by the politicians. Vastly different things that you’re trying to hammer together.
Israelis control both the Democratic and Republican parties.
Thank you for showing me you’re nuts. No point in real discussion, this will be my only reply.
But to address
Most damning of all? Al Gore supported military intervention in Iraq.
That reads nearly like an academic discussion on the topic and that he was actually focused on WMDs. Sounds like he wouldn’t have done it without people/nations researching and agreeing that Saddma Hussein had WMDs (or was trying to make them), which would have lead to international cooperation and support. Not quite to the point of wanting UN agreement (because vetos) but he keeps discussing the UN. And sounds like if he didn’t have both the domestic and international agreement, it wouldn’t have happened. This is just another thing you’re trying to hammer together. I thought this part was cool “the president is publicly taunting Democrats with the political consequences of a ‘no’ vote”, he was obviously not a fan of Bush’s browbeating - which along with Bush’s lies is how the Iraq war went through. And the whole thing is just ripping Bush’s administration and approach apart.
That you keep trying to hammer different things together shows me you either can’t separate them yourself, or that you’re discussing in bad faith. So ciao.
In the rare cases a Democrat I vote for wins they’re either hamstrung by Republicans winning everywhere else or have a stroke and turn into Republicans.
Let me introduce you to group known as the ‘Obama-Obama-Trump’ voters.
Confusing on the face of it no? How can someone vote for Barack twice, and then pull the lever for Trump? And the map is not clear either; counties in New England, the Rust Belt, southwest, and northeast. All over the country, red and blue states. So what happened?
These 206 counties cast 7.5 million votes in 2016, which accounts for 5.5 percent of all votes cast in the election.
Between 2012 and 2016, the Democratic popular vote margin declined by 2.1 million votes. Even though these 206 counties make up only 5 percent of the total votes cast, they accounted for 51 percent of that decline.
Low propensity voters, now disillusioned with politics. These are the people who got sold a vision of hope and change after the Great Recession in 2007-2008, and while yes things changed, not in a fundamental way. They still drive on crumbling roads to take their kids to the same underfunded schools. Still watch their taxes fund overseas wars, for nebulous ‘foreign policy’ reasons that aren’t clear. Still paying out the ass for their dialysis care. Watching standards of living regress around them, knowing their kids will be worse off regardless of a college degree.
You see, there’s a part 3 that you’re forgetting that needs to happen, otherwise another opportunist grifter can slide in with false promises and spam-abuse the populism cheat code:
Deliver results for the people who voted for you - or don’t be in power when it goes bad
Obama had a majority for 2 years. And he got through major healthcare reform. Part 3 accomplished. His reward? To lose the majority for the next 6 years and the gop blocking everything. Part 3 was accomplished and the voters did not turn out.
So we’re back to asking, what’s the solution? 1. Vote for Dems and give them majorities.
The tragedy here is that so many people are uniformed and think he had 8 effective years when he only had 2.
Just have to vote for Dems and there’s a decent chance 9/11 wouldn’t have happened, so no Afghanistan, Iraq wouldn’t have happened, pandemic would’ve been handled better and the pandemic response plan wouldn’t have been axed, and we wouldn’t have bombed Iran. Not to mention women would still have health care.
I’ve been voting D for years and it still didn’t help.
The problem is the Democratic Party isn’t a working class/labor party. The Democratic Party’s primarily purpose is to occupy space on the political spectrum and prevent the rise of a true workers party. There will never be a time to walk away, abandon a clearly irredeemably broken edifice, and build something new. It will always be the most important election of your life, and you will always be a traitor to your nation for daring to suggest it’s time to scrap the morbidly obese old man, fused into his couch, sucking up all the oxygen out of the room on the left side of the political spectrum.
No, the entire structure of our government is unable to deal with the world it exists in.
Iraq War resolution vote in the Senate.
Dem President wouldn’t have been pounding the war path, with lies, and pretty much the entire nation pushing their representatives for it.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-israeli-militaries-jointly-drilled-iran-strike-during-biden-administration-report/
Where do you get that idea? The Trump admin has only been in place for five months. The strike the US just carried out took years of planning. Trump’s attack on Iran was just a continuation of Biden admin policy.
All the evidence I’ve seen my whole adult life is that the Democrats, or at least the Democratic leadership structure, are just as bloodthirsty and warmongering as the Republican leadership.
We don’t actually know that Dems wouldn’t have been pushing an Iraq war. Ultimately the real push for the war came from the Israeli leadership, and the Israelis control both the Democratic and Republican parties. Israel ultimately decides US Middle East policy, not the American citizens. What party you vote for has very little impact on it. That’s the conclusion you reach if you look at the actual evidence, not just the vibes that each party likes to portray. The Dems like to portray themselves as some 1960s peace-nicks, but both parties let Israel control their entire Middle East policy. Israel wanted to invade Iraq, and that was going to happen regardless of what party was in power.
Maybe the Dems would have handled the Iraq war a little more competently, but Saddam had been a villain in the US media for years. People were talking about invading Iraq while the bodies at ground zero hadn’t even cooled off.
Most damning of all? Al Gore supported military intervention in Iraq. He just wanted a more international effort than what Bush did.
Gore supported invading Iraq. The majority of Democrats in the US Senate supported Iraq. What evidence do you have that a Democratic president wouldn’t have invaded Iraq? I think the only case is vibes-based.
Militaries work on plans for everything. I would be surprised if they didn’t have a plan to invade nearly every country on Earth. It’s what the military does. The decision is made by the politicians. Vastly different things that you’re trying to hammer together.
Thank you for showing me you’re nuts. No point in real discussion, this will be my only reply.
But to address
That reads nearly like an academic discussion on the topic and that he was actually focused on WMDs. Sounds like he wouldn’t have done it without people/nations researching and agreeing that Saddma Hussein had WMDs (or was trying to make them), which would have lead to international cooperation and support. Not quite to the point of wanting UN agreement (because vetos) but he keeps discussing the UN. And sounds like if he didn’t have both the domestic and international agreement, it wouldn’t have happened. This is just another thing you’re trying to hammer together. I thought this part was cool “the president is publicly taunting Democrats with the political consequences of a ‘no’ vote”, he was obviously not a fan of Bush’s browbeating - which along with Bush’s lies is how the Iraq war went through. And the whole thing is just ripping Bush’s administration and approach apart.
That you keep trying to hammer different things together shows me you either can’t separate them yourself, or that you’re discussing in bad faith. So ciao.
Winning is binary, so me voting doesn’t make Trump any less the president.
I’ve been trying to do that too and people are too stupid to convince and I’m bad at it.
In the rare cases a Democrat I vote for wins they’re either hamstrung by Republicans winning everywhere else or have a stroke and turn into Republicans.
So we’re back to 1. More GOP wins means it would have been even worse and 2. Convince your fellow voter and non voter to vote.
Seriously what is the purpose of your moaning.
Confusing on the face of it no? How can someone vote for Barack twice, and then pull the lever for Trump? And the map is not clear either; counties in New England, the Rust Belt, southwest, and northeast. All over the country, red and blue states. So what happened?
Low propensity voters, now disillusioned with politics. These are the people who got sold a vision of hope and change after the Great Recession in 2007-2008, and while yes things changed, not in a fundamental way. They still drive on crumbling roads to take their kids to the same underfunded schools. Still watch their taxes fund overseas wars, for nebulous ‘foreign policy’ reasons that aren’t clear. Still paying out the ass for their dialysis care. Watching standards of living regress around them, knowing their kids will be worse off regardless of a college degree.
You see, there’s a part 3 that you’re forgetting that needs to happen, otherwise another opportunist grifter can slide in with false promises and spam-abuse the populism cheat code:
Obama had a majority for 2 years. And he got through major healthcare reform. Part 3 accomplished. His reward? To lose the majority for the next 6 years and the gop blocking everything. Part 3 was accomplished and the voters did not turn out.
So we’re back to asking, what’s the solution? 1. Vote for Dems and give them majorities.
The tragedy here is that so many people are uniformed and think he had 8 effective years when he only had 2.
So your solution is to keep trying the thing that I’ve already indicated doesn’t work.
Unless you’re advocating for me committing interstate voter fraud to flip half the Republican districts blue.
Because we’ve already established that I’m shit at convincing people to vote because I’m a whiny asshole.
I’m gonna leave this conversation because I just keep saying the same thing and you keep moaning the same thing.