Citation needed. Where does one buy an outlet like this? Certainly not from the big box store.
Yep, Home Depot, Lowes, etc is where you’ll find them. They cost about $15 each.
These cheap outlets are okay for 240v loads that are only on for short periods of time at lower current, say 20A or maybe 30A. This would be fine for an electric clothes dryer for example. However, once you start pulling 40A through it for 5 or 6 hours, the minimal metal in the construction of the outlet can handle it, and they will literally melt from the heat. When they melt, they can cause fires.
The outlets that are built to handle the heat and current do exist but they cost $60 to $100 each. Also, putting an outlet in the garage requires GFCI. The cost of a regular 50A breaker is about $20. The GFCI version of the 50A breaker is $120. So folks looking to go cheap will buy the $15 outlet and the $20 breaker and set themselves up for multiple problems.
This is complete nonsense. Any UL listed plug will sustain a load indefinitely. There are millions of them running dryers in the US for hours at a time already.
You don’t need to take my word for it. Simply search “ev outlet melted” and you’ll get piles of results showing the gory melted results (just equipment, not people gore).
Charging a Tesla:
Charging an Audi:
Charging a Rivian:
People are finding the cheap NEMA 14-50 outlets just can’t handle the high current EV charging long term. The recommendation is for a Commercial grade NEMA 14-50 outlet instead of the cheap residential ones. Keep in mind the cheap ones work for weeks or months. Sometimes years, but this is the result of many of the cheap ones eventually.
Enphase/Clippercreek chargers actually ship with the high quality Commercial grade outlet specifically for this reason because they don’t want you buying one from Home Depot for $10 and damaging the charger or your home.
Any UL listed plug will sustain a load indefinitely. There are millions of them running dryers in the US for hours at a time already.
Home clothes dryers aren’t drawing 40A continuous current for 5-6 hours. Even when a clothes dryer is running for an hour its not drawing the full wire rated current. It cycles on and off the heating elements during the drying cycle.
There is no evidence that these are proper UL listed plugs or that they were installed correctly. There is tons of bootleg shit on Amazon that is clearly not up to code. The NEC is very specifically written with this exact situation in mind, which is why continuous current handling is the standard. The idea that there exists some lesser standards for home builds is a myth I’ve seen repeated over and over again and it simply is not true.
Is it possible that Home Depot’s supply chain is contaminated with knockoff parts? I guess. But the idea that there are somehow separate standards for home and commercial electrical fixtures, and that home Depot is selling people the former, inferior standard is absolutely, 100% nonsense.
Is it possible that Home Depot’s supply chain is contaminated with knockoff parts? I guess.
I never suggested anywhere that knockoffs were the cause.
The idea that there exists some lesser standards for home builds is a myth I’ve seen repeated over and over again and it simply is not true. But the idea that there are somehow separate standards for home and commercial electrical fixtures, and that home Depot is selling people the former, inferior standard is absolutely, 100% nonsense.
There are absolutely mechanical difference in residential and commercial constructed receptacles in general. Hospital grade being even higher.
Is it your belief that Home Depot and Leviton are simply fleecing uneducated buyers by charging more for “Designed for EV charging” NEMA 14-50 outlets?
Leviton “Designed for EV charging” NEMA 14-50 receptacle
How about Enphase/Clippercreek including their own NEMA 14-50 outlet which is a $60 Bryant receptacle? Why isn’t Enphase putting a $10 NEMA 14-50 in the box instead?
Here’s the official Enphase Training Installation video from the company (timestamped to the NEMA 14-50 receptacle instructions)
Wait, WTF? Why can they sell that outlet? Got a link to the testing?
e: because basically you’re saying that my 50A breaker isn’t serving a 50A circuit for my dryer and my range. That’s fucked up. I know they don’t draw that much but the safety should be built in.
A 50 amp circuit should only be loaded to 80% of its rated load for continuous use (the NEC defines this as anything longer than 3 hours). So 50X0.8=40A is safe to draw for longer than 3 hours. The 20% buffer is there to account for load increases like the inrush current from a dryer heating element kicking on and off, or the motor starting and stopping.
Any receptacle rated for a 50 Amp circuit will also meet this requirement if installed properly. If you’re doing this shit, but a fucking torque wrench, because this shit does have torque requirements.
Installed properly means that the wire feeding it is sized properly and all connections are torqued to spec.
If listed receptacles weren’t designed for use at their rated amperage, then there’s no point of getting it tested and listed by an independent laboratory, and there would be many more electrical fires in factories than there are.
The problem is that most people will just slap the absolute cheapest shit they can find together however they feel.
Yep, Home Depot, Lowes, etc is where you’ll find them. They cost about $15 each.
These cheap outlets are okay for 240v loads that are only on for short periods of time at lower current, say 20A or maybe 30A. This would be fine for an electric clothes dryer for example. However, once you start pulling 40A through it for 5 or 6 hours, the minimal metal in the construction of the outlet can handle it, and they will literally melt from the heat. When they melt, they can cause fires.
The outlets that are built to handle the heat and current do exist but they cost $60 to $100 each. Also, putting an outlet in the garage requires GFCI. The cost of a regular 50A breaker is about $20. The GFCI version of the 50A breaker is $120. So folks looking to go cheap will buy the $15 outlet and the $20 breaker and set themselves up for multiple problems.
This is complete nonsense. Any UL listed plug will sustain a load indefinitely. There are millions of them running dryers in the US for hours at a time already.
You don’t need to take my word for it. Simply search “ev outlet melted” and you’ll get piles of results showing the gory melted results (just equipment, not people gore).
Charging a Tesla:
Charging an Audi:
Charging a Rivian:
People are finding the cheap NEMA 14-50 outlets just can’t handle the high current EV charging long term. The recommendation is for a Commercial grade NEMA 14-50 outlet instead of the cheap residential ones. Keep in mind the cheap ones work for weeks or months. Sometimes years, but this is the result of many of the cheap ones eventually.
Enphase/Clippercreek chargers actually ship with the high quality Commercial grade outlet specifically for this reason because they don’t want you buying one from Home Depot for $10 and damaging the charger or your home.
Home clothes dryers aren’t drawing 40A continuous current for 5-6 hours. Even when a clothes dryer is running for an hour its not drawing the full wire rated current. It cycles on and off the heating elements during the drying cycle.
There is no evidence that these are proper UL listed plugs or that they were installed correctly. There is tons of bootleg shit on Amazon that is clearly not up to code. The NEC is very specifically written with this exact situation in mind, which is why continuous current handling is the standard. The idea that there exists some lesser standards for home builds is a myth I’ve seen repeated over and over again and it simply is not true.
Is it possible that Home Depot’s supply chain is contaminated with knockoff parts? I guess. But the idea that there are somehow separate standards for home and commercial electrical fixtures, and that home Depot is selling people the former, inferior standard is absolutely, 100% nonsense.
I never suggested anywhere that knockoffs were the cause.
There are absolutely mechanical difference in residential and commercial constructed receptacles in general. Hospital grade being even higher.
source
Is it your belief that Home Depot and Leviton are simply fleecing uneducated buyers by charging more for “Designed for EV charging” NEMA 14-50 outlets?
Leviton “Designed for EV charging” NEMA 14-50 receptacle
source
…vs the cheap contractor grade outlet?
Leviton contractor grade NEMA 14-50 receptacle
source
How about Enphase/Clippercreek including their own NEMA 14-50 outlet which is a $60 Bryant receptacle? Why isn’t Enphase putting a $10 NEMA 14-50 in the box instead?
Here’s the official Enphase Training Installation video from the company (timestamped to the NEMA 14-50 receptacle instructions)
Enphase Training video timestamped to the NEMA 14-50 comment
“Even if you have a NEMA 14-50 already, Enphase is requiring you to replace that as we’ve seen some overheating from some older receptacles”
Is your assertion that Leviton and Enphase are just scaremongering unassuming consumers?
right? Are you a sparky? Sounds like some serious FUD to me.
Wait, WTF? Why can they sell that outlet? Got a link to the testing?
e: because basically you’re saying that my 50A breaker isn’t serving a 50A circuit for my dryer and my range. That’s fucked up. I know they don’t draw that much but the safety should be built in.
The safety is built in.
A 50 amp circuit should only be loaded to 80% of its rated load for continuous use (the NEC defines this as anything longer than 3 hours). So 50X0.8=40A is safe to draw for longer than 3 hours. The 20% buffer is there to account for load increases like the inrush current from a dryer heating element kicking on and off, or the motor starting and stopping.
Any receptacle rated for a 50 Amp circuit will also meet this requirement if installed properly. If you’re doing this shit, but a fucking torque wrench, because this shit does have torque requirements.
So a Home Depot plug can carry what it says it can and this article has FUD?
If it is UL listed, and installed properly: yes.
Installed properly means that the wire feeding it is sized properly and all connections are torqued to spec.
If listed receptacles weren’t designed for use at their rated amperage, then there’s no point of getting it tested and listed by an independent laboratory, and there would be many more electrical fires in factories than there are.
The problem is that most people will just slap the absolute cheapest shit they can find together however they feel.