Trump isn’t an icon of positive masculinity. He also did very little for young men during his four years as president
Right-wing incels, hot off their carnivore diet, roids, and worship of Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson wondering why women flee from them and yet continue to double-down on the likes of worshiping shitheads like Trump and Andrew Tate.
It’s the exploitation of the ignorant and vulnerable; naturally, right-wing puppeteers are telling them it’s everyone else who is the problem.
I don’t care really for either side tbh, but an argument I’ve heard somewhat recently is; they are at least talking to that demographic, not calling them incels, losers etc. Again, team red can drown in an oil fire, but it’s about the only thing that approaches making some sense.
I don’t think Trump has the interest of literally any of his voters at heart. He’s only interested in helping himself and he legally can’t even vote for himself.
Edit: TIL Trump can still vote.
Florida (Trump’s home state) Law:
a felony conviction in another state makes a person ineligible to vote in Florida only if the conviction would make the person ineligible to vote in the state where the person was convicted.
New York (State of felony convictions) Law:
a person convicted of a felony is disenfranchised only while incarcerated for that felony.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/can-trump-vote-now-he-has-felony-convictions
Should be noted that young male voters are some of the least reliable voters to turn out. Yes, he’s gone hard on the Joe Rogan demographic with his pandering. Yes, its working (because… advertising works!) No, I don’t think its going to be a winning strategy in the end, because them hoes ain’t loyal.
Is it true he is no longer eligible to vote?
Unfortunately that was just wishful thinking. I had to confirm and according to Florida and New York state law, he will be about to vote unless he ends up being incarcerated in New York at the time.
To be fair I think felons and imprisoned folk should be allowed to vote.
Why not just kick them out of the country if you are going to disenfranchise them like that?
It’s hard for imprisoned people to have a fair vote, unhindered by pressure from guards, administration, or gangs. You think for-profit prisons selling slave labor of their inmates is bad, just offer them the opportunity to sell their votes.
Well that would be an easy one to expose though wouldnt it? Theres no chance a prison could keep that hidden.
That’s fair, although a bit extreme jumping straight to kicking them out of the country.
How about just politicians with felonies then?
Yeah that was meant to be some form of sarcasm I couldn’t figure out how to word right.
I don’t think citizens really should ever lose their right to vote. Its absurd to me.
I will say people who commit political crimes should be barred from politics though.
He does have an interest in young girls at heart though… Just like his good friend Jeff Epstein, “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy, He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
Can you link that quote?
https://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/
It’s part way into it as the article is about Epstein not Trump, but it’s exactly as they wrote it.
Thanks. Damn, he just has so little control, he’ll say almost anything. It’s not exactly encriminating but leaves little doubt that Drumpf knew exactly what was going on, as if we didn’t know he participated.
The US will get the leader they deserve.
Too bad the rest of the world will feel the consequences as well while they have no say in the matter.
Nor does half the country. I just don’t understand why trump appeals to young men at all. He’s just some horrifically uncool geezer.
Because all of the aggrieved male content on yt, TikTok, podcasts, etc. There’s an entire normie-to-nazi pipeline ffs, and the social media algorithms continually promote stuff that’s just slightly more “edgy”, and suddenly kids have gone from Joe Rogan to Andrew Tate. Because all of the white males behind social media - spez, Zuckerberg, Musk, etc - agree with that content and continue to find excuses to “free speech” it.
Those boys should put in more work getting laid. And that’s only a partial joke.
The incel thing drags them in, step 1 into the pipe. The can’t get laid, must be something going on they can’t put their finger on, but that thing is damned sure someone else’s fault.
“I’m white, OK looking and I’m a nice guy!” The unspoken question, the unthought question, is, “What happened to my privilege?” For past generations, life seemed to work out well enough for white guys, but it sure as hell isn’t working out for me!
Demographic shift has been wild in my lifetime. Too young to have experienced this, they get a feeling that something nebulous has changed, for the worse. They see minorities of all stripes stepping onto a more level playing field and then tune into YouTubers saying, “Yes! Now you get it! The other is the thing you didn’t realize was holding you down!” Well god damn, now it all makes sense!
Back to getting laid, the fun part. Nothing like a good screw to smooth those rejected feels. You’re wanted, wanted as a man. But if they think going hard-right is going to land them some pussy, oh boy… The few women in that scene are strictly for the alphas! Your beta ass won’t even get scraps.
Dated quite a bit couple of years back. That was an education. Few women had political statements in their profiles, but many wrote something akin to, “I’m not interested in politics.”, often followed by a lovey, flowery sentence to lighten the mood. Men: This is code for, “Don’t come at me with your Trump bullshit.” Yes, apparently guys often pull that horsepucky on the first date. These woman are screening for conservatives, they ain’t gonna hear it. Talking on the phone to a potential date (who I ended up dating for a few months!),
“(laughing) Yeah, I’m a bit of a redneck.”
Silence. Wrong thing to say there, buckaroo.
“…uh, just how redneck?”
“I loathe Trump if that’s what you’re getting at.”
“Oh, whew! Just checking, can’t be too careful these days.”
tl;dr: We need to get the word out to these young men, “This crap you’re watching is anathema to getting laid.”
I cannot emphasize enough to men: nobody wants to hear how overarmed someone pursuing them is.
But seriously, the right wing loves to imply that “real men” are right wing and that women want a “real man”. And the left can’t really counter the first part because “real man” is a concept rooted in patriarchal expectations and is partly associated with real jackasses. But the second part we only have an unsatisfying answer for: that women are people and all want different things.
But they’re training young men to struggle romantically and be pissed about it without the emotional intelligence to deal with that anger. Oh and they’re encouraging those men to buy guns and to take offense at women being scared of men. That’s not how you make your fans into happy husbands and fathers who credit you for setting them on the path to that. It’s how you make them into suicide terrorists, it’s far closer to what Al Quadra did than what loving fathers do.
The few women in that scene are strictly for the alphas! Your beta ass won’t even get scraps.
The reality is that in humans, there’s no such thing as alphas and betas. The ethology that claimed that’s how wolves organize their societies, and that meme-level social darwinists tried to apply to people, was wrong too.
Feel like calling them incels and assuming you know every thing going on there gives them an easy out. Need to start asking these turds what gives them the right? Who entitled them to feel so fucking special? Was it popular media? Because that’s all bullshit and we’ve known that since day one, so why the fuck do they think they get to live a delusion?
Pair that with white males feeling entitled to things (mostly money, women, and even friends) and society currently being set up to keep them away from those things. They’re rightfully angry, it’s just their anger is being directed at the wrong things.
Society isn’t set up to keep them away from anything: that’s paranoid rationalization. They’re just shit at relating to people and lack discipline and intelligence. Once you make the empowering realization that the world doesn’t owe you a fucking thing, you have a realistic starting point. Blaming other people, or “society,” is just an excuse for inaction.
Yeah, when white men do the shit that people who are successful and not white men do they often find themselves among us. Not always, but nobody gets perfect odds
They are Nazis, treat them as such.
Look at 99% of media before 2001 AD. White male hero. Star Trek TOS was a giant ground breaker showing Uhura, but all the real critical leaders were males. Think on this; the James Bond movie Thunderball has a scene that’s pretty much rape; they were selling little kids’ toys based on that movie. There’s a John Wayne movie where Wayne throws someone else’s kid into a river to teach the boy how to get over his fear of water.
This is what these young men and their fathers consume. And Trump plays to that. He’s a macho hero who plays by his own rules and doesn’t take crap from anyone.
Muhammed Ali did more in real life than Clint Eastwood ever did in all his movies put together; guess which one these folks admire?
No offense, but I’d safely bet maybe 0.1% of current generation young men have watched any of those movies. This article is primarily talking about younger Gen Z folks (18-30), so people born 1994-2006. These males specifically consume idiot social media personalities vs old school macho man movies from the 50s and 60s.
^ This. I think even older people have scaled back on watching such fare.
And Trump plays to that. He’s a macho hero who plays by his own rules and doesn’t take crap from anyone.
Except he’s not. He’s a lard-assed con artist, appearance-obsessed but ridiculous: fake hair, fake tan, trying to exaggerate his height and hide his obesity, a bully, a coward, a liar, and anyone who’s seen the video of him grovelling in Putin’s presence wouldn’t say he doesn’t take crap from anyone. He’s a servile, fawning toady who would have been nothing without his daddy’s money. If this society were a meritocracy, he’d be pounding farts out of shirttails in a steam laundry in New Jersey, if he could be employed at all.
You know it and I know it, now try to explain it to them.
I’m a zoomed so I can confirm you completely failed to bring up any media relevant to Gen Z, and Star Trek TOS and Ali are closer than Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, and Bond.
This is what these young men and their fathers consume. And Trump plays to that. He’s a macho hero who plays by his own rules and doesn’t take crap from anyone.
How the fuck do they think Trump is macho?
Because Andrew Tate, Ben Shapiro, and Jordan Peterson tell them Trump is macho and the young men don’t know any better. They think these morons are authority figures
Which I also don’t get. Those guys don’t seem macho or cool either.
Most of us do not deserve the orange monster. Most of us are actually good people who are just trying to survive. Don’t wish harm on the whole country because a bunch of assholes use a shit electoral college system to their advantage.
What about the majority of us who will vote dem. Like, that’s basically a given.
You’re not paying enough attention if you think Trump winning means “too bad the rest of the world will feel the consequences.” Germany just elected their first far right government since WWII, France had a massive right wing that is now in the EU council, Austria… well they keep making shitty right wing choices, down into South America Argentina shifted right, and other countries continue to do so as well. We’re not special or alone in this.
Germany just elected their first far right government since WWII
In one German state, Thuringia. That’s the German equivalent of Mississippi. It’s bad, but not bad on the national level yet. In France, the FN (the extreme-right party) lost in the run-off, though their leader has been pretending to be less of a jackbooted thug than her father, the previous FN leader.
You’re correct that the return of fascism is a global problem. If something were to happen to Putin, many of those rightwing parties would collapse back into the squabbling gangs of hooligans and racist goons they were before they started getting Russian advice, funding and help from troll farms. That’s why Russian propaganda outlets like RT and Sputnik have been so anti-Harris. They know Trump will sell out Ukraine and gut NATO, and that’s the only way Putin can keep his job and his head.
Germany just elected their first far right government since WWII,
This is very misleading
My source is DW. Link
It would’ve been less misleading for you too to specify that it was state elections
You’re not paying enough attention if you think Trump winning means “too bad the rest of the world will feel the consequences.” Germany just elected their first far right government since WWII,
There were elections in two states in the east of Germany last weekend. In one of them the far right party AfD gained most votes compared to others. In the other state they finished second largest. There is nothing decisive however. Other parties have been called to set up a firewall “Brandmauer” to prevent the AfD to govern.
France had a massive right wing that is now in the EU council, Austria… well they keep making shitty right wing choices, down into South America Argentina shifted right, and other countries continue to do so as well. We’re not special or alone in this.
Exactly. In the last few decades Austria , Turkey and Hungary were among the first to shift to far right party based governments in Europe. An interesting read is this book by Turkish journalist Ece Temelkuran (Who fled the country) which is about Turkey going downhill from democracy to dictatorship. This book also reflects on Trump winning in 2016. At some point also Poland had a far-right government but the damage from that is slowly being repaired by a new government. By now among others Slovakia, Italy and the Netherlands have far-right government coalitions. Outside Europe there was Bolsonaro in Brazil. Still, Trump winning (legally or not) would be bad for the rest of the world, especially for Ukraine.
Literally Steve Bannons plan.
Get “rootless” white men (he aimed for gamers) angry and get them “on your side.”
I blame Bannon and Reich wing media for this bullshit now where ANY NEW GAME is guaranteed to have a “WoKe GaMe?” post in the steam discussions.
They can’t even think for themselves… They need to be told it’s woke so they know to be mad at it…
That’s not bannon that’s his shithead radio predecessor Rush Limbaugh and before that Reagan then Nixon so on and so forth right up until the party fracture.
My take is that they vote for him because he is angry. These young men are largely angry and have had media of all sorts telling them that they should be. They don’t want someone telling them how they will boost the middle class and have equitable tax. They want someone who says they will burn every problem to the ground and break things. They want someone screaming at someone to blame.
Why we have a huge chunk of young men desperatly angry is a choose your own adventure of societal issues where we have provided almost no healthy outlet for healthy aggression or the physicality that comes with being a young man. Everyone is free to come up with their own reasons, but for me it is the lack of outlet or the feeling of societial participation for young men.
Whatever the reason, a culture who sweeps the problems of frustrated young men under the rug for long enough I feel will live to regret it.
Cough Arab Spring cough
These young men are largely angry and have had media of all sorts telling them that they should be.
They’ve had two decades of socio-economic bedlam. Its not like people are just angry for no reason. Sucks out there to be a Zoomer during one of the most on-paper rapid increases in domestic prosperity, while your demographic is entirely cut out of the gains but expected to assume all the costs.
Trump’s selling snake oil. But he’s got a target rich environment of suckers precisely because the labor movement in this country has been abandoned by both parties and the Democrats have (correctly) identified this group as the most expensive to turn out during election season so not worth the effort.
If you’re going hard in the paint for the culture war, you’re better off aiming for middle aged women. They vote. They donate. They organize. And they stay loyal to their party. Young men are only good for the next hype cycle before they give up or lose interest. The economy for Zoomers isn’t looking much better in the next four years, so Dems can come back around for them after Trump is gone.
Whatever the reason, a culture who sweeps the problems of frustrated young men under the rug for long enough I feel will live to regret it.
These aren’t problems unique to young men. They’re structural and societal. Young men are just the demographic that produces the most immediate feedback and engagement. And the current GOP is entirely embedded in the social media hype cycle, so they’re as along-for-the-ride as their turnout target.
The real people profiting off this mess aren’t Republicans, but the social media advertising market who actually get to generate revenue off the bad decisions of deluded young people.
Just curious, have you ever watched the Woodstock 99 documentary?
A long while ago.
This all comes back to supporting young men and men in finding positive social groups and support systems that don’t have extreme ideology attached. In the absence of a general, common avenue to community for men, it seems like these edge groups will continue to leverage that component to lure them in.
Trump did very little for anyone. Unless you’re rich.
Even then it’s not like it was intentional. He only did it for himself, it’s just that other rich people also coincidentally benefited.
Yeah Trump is very simple - he punishes anyone who doesn’t actively support him and rewards anyone who does. Anything he does for anybody is simply to show others that if you’re good to Trump, he’ll throw you a bone too.
He spends so much time performing for his base to ensure he has enough political power for that system to work. Once his base gets bored of him he’ll be nothing.
and even then he did it for himself in the long run.
I knew guys running their own businesses that benefitted from the 2017 tax breaks. Unfortunately, the dumb fucks didn’t notice those were temporary from the outset and staged to revert back after the next presidential election. And those tax breaks directly give Republicans the excuse to say “we don’t have money for all these social programs.”
Scared little boys need a daddy
In many ways yes. They’re being a bunch of pathetic losers, and could probably use some men helping show them how not to be pathetic losers. Hell they could probably use some women to explain how to stop being pathetic losers.
For my part I stopped being a pathetic loser around the point that I realized that I needed to become someone I liked more than learning to like myself. When I realized that a partner wasn’t going to fix me. I did deep reflection, actually went out and talked to people, and did the slow hard work of improving my material and emotional wellbeing. Anger never solved half as much as asking if I’m acting like someone I’d like to be around did. And I don’t know anyone who’s benefited from anger as much as me, why sometimes it looks like it’s benefitted me even a portion of as often as it’s hurt me. And yeah that’s how I went from a whiny loser to a woman with a good career, happy marriage, and positive reputation in the communities I take part in
And somebody to hate. It’s so ugly how young men easily come together to hate a person or group. It gives them a sense of togetherness and ‘not it’ at the same time.
Alternatively, and perhaps more plausibly - people who are new to politics fall for a populist.
I’m a bit scared of where the world is going, but it doesn’t make me vote a local populist. One of the things that helps me recognize a scammer from distance - 3 decades of experience with garden variety politics.
I think a lot of it is because there’s so many more well-funded right-wing influencers/grifters than genuine liberal or left-wing influencers. It’s much more profitable to take advantage of young men’s anxieties and insecurities (to sell fungus pills, get-rich-quick plans, or whatever), than to genuinely discuss things from a liberal or especially left-wing perspective.
Its a cliche but they also promise easy answers to hard questions, blame others for problems they caused themselves or at least did nothing to get out of. The old tell 'em what they want to hear rather than what they need to hear.
Is their interest racism? Because he’s got that covered.
If theyre angry and frustrated then yes, identifying a scapegoat is a great way to manipulate them
But he has their prejudices, incel misogyny, and hatreds on public display. That’s good enough for many.
Also, there are far too many that see the world burning as some kind of entertainment. I hate to be the old guy yelling at people on the lawn, but I don’t know if the popular social media theme of destroying or damaging things, or doing mean shit to people for lols, is a symptom or a display that encourages or makes that behavior ok. There’s no consequences for that behavior, it’s entertainment, and some of that same attitude seems to bleed over into real-life actions.
I have definitely worked with people who voted for trump for no other reason than lols and to stir shit up.
The article completely missed the core reason for young men to vote for Trump. It’s ending DEI initiatives.
That’s a single issue for some of my conservative friends. The D’s will never get their vote.
In the UK the Conservative party decided to get rid of DEI initiatives in education. When?
When the minority specifically recommended to be targeted for support became poor/working class white boys.
Conservatives will go out of their way to harm the working class because as long as things are going badly for them they’ll be angry enough to vote for the ones with dog whistles pretending it’s someone else’s fault.
It’s ending DEI initiatives.
Name the “endless DEI initiatives” that Harris has been promoting in her platform.
Most of the DEI that people encounter in real life originates from their workplaces. It’s being pushed for marketing reasons, or because it’s the only way the employer can recruit qualified staff. It’s the free market in action. And in my experience, it’s the marginal performers who are adversely impacted. The people who are good at their jobs keep their jobs, or quickly find another.
I’m a hiring manager, have been for a very long time. I’ve got two recruiting campaigns going right now, The field of applicants we interviewed was highly diverse. And the last two offer letters I’ve sent out were to middle-aged white men. That’s because they were the best candidates. And you know what? The DEI Police are not going to come and kick down my front door at 3 AM because of my hiring decisions. DEI is a nonexistent problem, just as “woke,” just as the Great Replacement lies, just as the anti-trans hysteria is. The reality is that, if you’re not getting offers or someone is being promoted ahead of you, it’s because your management think they’ll do better than you. Suck less and you’ll do better. Nobody in my job assesses me based on DEI compliance. But if I hire people who wash out because they can’t do the job, or if I can’t retain high performers, my ass is on the line.
And just to declare my own perspective: I’m an able-bodied older white male myself.
Losers are afraid of competition as another older white male the system is still heavily favouring us. People are mistaking equality with discrimination and it’s so damn tone deaf.
That said even I bitch about it at time.
The DEI Police are not going to come and kick down my front door at 3 AM because of my hiring decisions.
Well…I’ve seen that happen. We had a black guy working for one of my previous employers and no one was really sure what he did. Ends up he was working his second job most days.
When said employer found out and fired him, he walked out with a 6 figure discrimination settlement. It was cheaper to settle than fight.
That cost a couple unrelated people their jobs due to budget.
I’m not pro or anti DEI. I’ve seen it used for good, and I’ve seen it abused.
A spectacular victory for the billionaire class that your friends are focused on the one black kid who gets a leg up and not the legions of white kids who got ahead through their parents’ donations and legacy admissions.
LBJ once said: “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” Clearly, 60 years on, it’s still true.
“But what about rich white kids”
Yeah, a great argument…
I guess they are just going to have to accept that diversity equity and inclusion are a part of our lives now, and that they don’t get to make decisions about who is included, and that diverse opinions really are valuable, and that we are going to continue spending our public resources to ensure we all have equitable opportunity.
I guess what I mean is, too bad for your conservative friends?
I agree. I am supposed to be just peachy with and validate some notion they are discussing this or any matter in good faith, while they are voting to kill my healthcare, prop up Russia, just so they can be racist? While “cleverly” refusing to sincerely discuss anything, adamantly trying to gaslight sincere prople with whatever the Russian propaganda of the hour is?
Ehh…they’ll be the next generation of old bitter men.
WHAT
something with the education and upbringing must be f up, if young men are impressed by him
is this based on facts? the last thing i saw of him was a train wreck, he can’t pull of a 2 !!! minute interview
Some may see him as a “counterculture”…thumbing the nose at establised rules youngsters naturally want to rebel against through causing outrage and stupid jokes. It’s like any other stupid manufactured fad in that respect.
This 20-year-old documentary about marketing to teens sort of reminds me of it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0tYRoiJvhJ4&list=PL_pPc6-qR9ZwlDyyk6o-X_gib47lpqlGP&index=15&pp=iAQB but now applied to ideas in the internet instead of products.
thanks for the explanation, i will watch the video link you gave me.
but really, i watched a couple of speeches of his, and i just could not grasp what he was talking about. it was like listening to a rambling drunken friend, that you have to bring home, and you yourself are sober.
I realized like you that it is not the content or the actions, it is a brand that appeals to their emotions (and the grown-ups too who got conditioned to react to a type of branding over the years). It’s just like selling an Adidas.
And it’s tragic, because he stands against everything they could ever gain…like an opioid…which reminds me of the Shady Vance quote:
In 2016 and 2017, Vance, then best-known for penning the best-selling book “Hillbilly Elegy” said Trump was “cultural heroin” and “just another opioid” for Middle America.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/15/politics/kfile-jd-vance-comments-trump/index.html
and this olympic gold for spinelessness (a posteriori):
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/opioid-of-the-masses/489911/
lol
yeah, i was surprised, i live in europe, you know, i dont know anything. so i was watching this conservative panel, and they were all saying that they realized he does not have the same ethics as them at all, it was comical how they tried to explain it to the MAGA people.
thanks for links, thats a good read
