There’s no undo button here. You can’t ungenocide by genocide, you can’t ungay a gay and you can’t unvote Trump. We can move only forward
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I have never, ever heard of someone calling for the deportation of Israelis. I think anyone who wants that was probably anti-semitic already and has taken the objectively horrific actions of the IDF as a reason to hate Jewish people in general.
This is the innate issue with creating an ethno-state, it makes it difficult to delineate grievances between ethnicity and state. I don’t know what the solution is, but I find it understandable that some people would agree with expulsion.
Is it really ethnic cleansing when the ethno-state they built continues to genocide their neighbors with the approval of the vast majority of its citizens?
By that logic that birth in Israel gives the right to stay there, this would in turn mean that this birth revokes the right to compensation for the ancestors that were murdered in the Holocaust or survived it and chose not to go back to Germany.
I don’t think anyone should have to be kicked out of the place they were born. How do you feel about german babies born in poland during ww2? Or YTs holding all the land in south africa?
If you read the first comment I made I said it wasn’t my belief but I understand why Palestinians would want Israelis to migrate back to Europe… However, I recognize that it’s not my people who are suffering from apartheid and genocide, and that those people have their own autonomy and will seek their own retribution.
Israelis chanting death to entire ethnicities but nooooo we can’t say anything that might hurt their poor lil feelings. Bunch of bollocks.
Should European-Americans all “just relocate” since we occupied North America from the Native Americans?
Otherwise I don’t see how you’re any different than the Israelites.
Well one happened in living memory and people are still living in the houses of displaced people in Palestine.
Zionism is similarly a genocidal fascist ideology. If these colonizers can’t handle freedom, democracy, equality, etc., then they should definitely return to their actual homes.
Idk, any Israeli citizen currently living there (that wasn’t born there) is a first generation colonizer, surely it’s not anti-semetic to call for that specific subgroup’s relocation, no?
The “GO BACK TO EUROPE, THE LAND OF YOUR ANCESTORS”, “Israelis are committing ethnic cleansing by their existence”, and “Genocide is Okay, Actually, if it’s in response to another genocide” are widespread in this very fucking thread.
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You realize that you put the comments in your own post right? So we can read them, then read your summarization of them, and realize how stupid you are.
Sorry that you feel the need to simp for genocide apologia?
As long as:
Stolen land is given back, and criminals prosecuted,
Sure.
I’m onboard with that, man. Like I said, I’m down with everything up to the very destruction of the Israeli state. It’s just ethnic cleansing and antisemitism I’m opposed to.
So I, a jew who has never even been to Israel, who’s ancestors left centuries ago, am responsible for the state of Israel in any fucking way?
Jewish does not mean Israeli… At all.
Ummm I never said that.
I agree that Jewish does not mean Israeli.
I’m specifically talking about individuals involved in war crimes that they should be held accountable.
Anti semitic remarks are not the same as anti Israeli remarks
I feel nothing when that guy changed “death, death to the IDF”. Well, maybe a mix of amusement and concern. But I have nothing, at all, to do with the IDF and do not support what they do
When you say, in this context, “I’ll cool it with the anti semitic comments when war criminals are brought to justice”, how do you think that feels?
Don’t take this shit casually, anti semitism goes back to biblical times. I’ve experienced it growing up. And now, they’re asking new York Jews what they think of “their” prime minister? They’re “othering” us already
They just built a concentration camp. In America. The Holocaust wasn’t the first time they targeted the Jews as the enemy within. I’ve always reminded my family who start flirting with conservatism… We’re always second. When they run out of people that look different, we’re next
I know what you meant. But that’s not what you said, and words matter
With climate change picking up the pace in the last few years, not sure how much longer this area will even be inhabitable.
Imagine if nature does what humankind could not - ends the whole miserable crisis.
Bold to claim climate change has anything to do with nature. It’s just another, indirect genocide by the boards of all the corporations.
I mean sure. Don’t me a racist bigot. Of course.
But let’s not pretend that religion isn’t fueling the atrocities being committed on both sides of the conflict.
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Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived in that area together for hundreds of years. This is a political conflict. The fucking Israeli settlers are psychopaths who roll into towns and start setting things on fire. It’s about territory, like all colonialist aggression.
Just gonna leave this here…
Religion does have a nonzero influence, but you’re correct in that this is primarily a political conflict. Zionists murder Muslim and Christian Palestinians alike, and Fatah, a secular resistance movement, was the leading org of the Palestinian side for the longest time.
Okay, so by “Zionists” are you referring exclusively to members of the Israeli government or might there perhaps be a broader ideology at play here? The meme reeks of a Bernie Sanders-esqe “Netanyahu is the problem” kind of narrative.
I don’t care where they go, just leave the fucking indigenous people alone.
Okay, so by “Zionists” are you referring exclusively to members of the Israeli government or might there perhaps be a broader ideology at play here?
There’s a broader ideology at play here that is very deeply engrained in Israeli society.
The meme reeks of a Bernie Sanders-esqe “Netanyahu is the problem” kind of narrative.
Sanders is a politician, not a polisci professor. Politicians say what they think will get them closer to the solutions they think they can achieve, not necessarily what is objectively correct. “We need to get rid of the worst of the genociders who has sparked the current wave of genocide, and condemning 70% of Israeli society, however correctly, will not give us the allies we need to reduce the current stage of the genocide and move to the next step of a just and lasting peace” kind of thinking - Sanders has long been a radical, by US standards, voice in support of the Palestinian cause. Thinking that him focusing on the most immediate enemy is condemnation worthy is blinkered at best.
I don’t care where they go, just leave the fucking indigenous people alone.
… do you care if Israelis in Israeli-majority areas recognized by international law as part of the state of Israel remain in Israel, where many of them were born and raised?
Religion isn’t fueling it, it is just used as moral justification from both sides. If religion didn’t exist the same thing would happen, but with a different form of moral justification.
It’s a ton of racism too. Darker skinned Jews get all sorts of discrimination, it’s just not as extreme as someone who is Palestinian.
This is what I said and then someone blew up in my face about it when I said this in another thread/post. Why are people so hard headed when it comes to accepting reality I wonder.
If it wasn’t religion it would be race or ideology or language or eye color. You could press a button and eliminate religion from history and all of these problems would still exist.
Fuck Israel, genocidal scum!
Israel is the most anti-Jewish state since Nazi Germany, and Palestinians are semitic.
Unfortunately, the term “antisemitic” no longer has any kind of fixed meaning. I wish that weren’t true, and I think it’s a combination of forces that decided to misuse the word for several decades, that have now led to it being meaningless.
And you might be tempted to tell me what you think it means, and maybe I could agree with you, but when I turn on the TV tomorrow someone else will be using it in a totally different way that’s inconsistent. Actually I’m kidding. I don’t have a TV.
Words that people misuse are still meaningful when the reader and writer both understand the same meaning. I expect you understand OP perfectly well.
Words that people misuse for the sake of propaganda are intentionally misleading, regardless of how any in-group understands it.
Your use of the word “intentionally” is quite confusing to me. Intentionally misleading on whose part? The word’s part, or the in-group’s?
Jewish people and groups around the world need to issue strong rejection of Israel’s actions.
If they don’t, i’m very concerned that Israel’s crimes will fall back on them in the future.
Let’s look at sentiment from different groups
Young and liberal associate them with Israeli genocide.
Young and conservative is full of full on Nazis.
Politically they aren’t worth much being concentrated in liberal strongholds.
When the old folks who are pro Israel go into the grounds dislike will be a rare point of agreement. Not a great position.
Condemnation of Israel’s actions won’t protect Jews around the world.
Do you think it’s safer to support genocide?
It will protect them from the free palestine crowd, but not from anti-semites. Is there a downside though?
The free palestine crowd contains and covers for antisemites among their ranks.
I’m sure contains, though I doubt there’s a complete overlap, not covers for. People who want a literal genocide to end aren’t automatically antisemites or antisemite apologists. Nor are antisemites, especially Trumper antisemites, automatically in favor of Palestine.
Well yeah, obviously. There are anti-semites everywhere. I meant those whose motivations are “free palestine,” which in my estimate is the main motivation of the free palestine crowd when viewed as a whole – not antisemitism. I don’t mean to say that there don’t exist people who are aligned with free-palestine just because they’re anti-semitic. But there’s no protection from those people either way – so, no downside.
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*It’s ok to hate Israel
Yes because it’s a nation which can have objectively bad characteristics and actions.
It’s my understanding that it is occurring naturally on its own, anyways?
A few reporting I’ve heard on Israel describes a state filled with dual-citizenship inhabitants that are used to first-world standard and would rather leave the country than deal with inconveniences. I oversimplify here, but who really wants to live in a genocidal state? Whether you’re on board or not with the genocide, it’s still a massive point of friction with neighbors.
There’s a significant issue of younger Israelis emigrating from Israel due to that friction, though I don’t know the exact numbers.
It’s a few tens of thousands, not a huge number, but significant for a small country. Also not necessarily younger ones. Families are moving out too. Greece is the first destination at the moment.
I think that the fact that youths and families are leaving is a much worse demographic crisis than it might seem at first glance. It’s literally the future of the country that is leaving.
It’s definitely looking dire for Israel, just on a demographic level.
Seems unlikely you’ll get more than half of people leaving “naturally.” Or at least, “naturally” is going to look more and more like “coerced” over the years if progress is made.
I’m not sure I understand what you are implying by
if progress is made. Progress on what, exactly?Progress on ending genocide. If there is progress, then those responsible will be leaving or facing their war crimes. Hopefully both.
Without “if progress is made,” my statement would have read:
“naturally” is going to look more and more like “coerced,”
but I don’t believe this, since my expectation is that the status quo will remain.
So many people on the left for whom jew = Zionist = fascist Israeli. It plays right in the hand of all the actual right-wingers and fascists supporting Israel. Appalling and stupid.
Where are these phantom lefties that think of Jewish = Zionist. Stop making shit up.
Most reasonable people out there know that being Jewish =\ zionists. There are plenty of Jewish people out there that are against Israel. It’s the Israeli government that has tried their best to conflate the two in order to protect their own murderous regime.
They are literally everywhere, from prominent left wing politicians to ordinary people (I’m in Europe BTW). It’s literally splitting the left down the middle in many European countries.
Isn’t that the stance of Israel as well? They claim to be the representatives of all jewish people.
specifically the stance of Likud.
So lefties should align their position on the fascist government of Israel ? 🤔
That’s why literally nobody on the left does this. A common and reasonable refrain is that it’s anti-semitic to conflate judaism and zionism.
These imaginary jew=zionist leftists are just a lib fever dream. Zio delusions.
Anarchist here. Literally not a single days goes by without witnessing this in lefty spaces, online or IRL.
Oh we out here making friends in these comment sections today.
