Frankly, I think you could make the argument that prison labor is more valuable based simply on the fact they can pay them less and get similar results. While also lining the pockets of the people running the prisons.
My question is who pays the wages of the prisoners? The state? The Feds? I highly doubt the prison is paying them directly.
This is rarely mentioned in discussions like this but volunteer work done by prisoners often results in sentence reductions. Honestly if I were in jail it feels win-win: get out of my cell for a bit and reduce my sentence? I can see why pay is less important for them
On the one hand, I am a bleeding heart liberal who figures that they have definitively made it clear they can do the job so let them do it.
On the other hand, firefighters (less so the wildfire fighting variety) are often in incredibly tense people centric situations. If we had a penal system that at all cared about rehabilitation I would be all for it. As it stands… background checks exist for a reason. And I still think there needs to be much more thought rather than just “You have a record, get out”.
Regardless: Fucking pay them for the job while they do it.
This I never fully understood. Isn’t the point of prison/community service orders etc. for the person to be punished for the crime or repay their debt to society? In which case, after the punishment has been carried out why continue to punish them further? They’ve done their time and hopefully learned a lesson. I understand background checks as a form of checking a person’s character for certain sensitive roles, but for everything?? Nah, that makes no sense.
I think that’s what he’s saying, the system is based on punishment and not rehabilitation so usually repeat offences and/or escalation/different crime types is quite common thus leading to the system where people who have a record at all can’t do much.
If we did have a prison system reform based around rehabilitation, then it would be much easier to ban people’s records from being used against them in the future
If they really wanted to make a change, they’d let prison firefighters become real firefighters after they got out of jail.
You’re not wrong, but I want to see both. I am thrilled that they’re at least addressing one injustice, while still advocating for more progress.
*Edit- I am hoping that this will change the perception that prison labor is somehow less valuable than civilian labor.
Frankly, I think you could make the argument that prison labor is more valuable based simply on the fact they can pay them less and get similar results. While also lining the pockets of the people running the prisons.
My question is who pays the wages of the prisoners? The state? The Feds? I highly doubt the prison is paying them directly.
This is rarely mentioned in discussions like this but volunteer work done by prisoners often results in sentence reductions. Honestly if I were in jail it feels win-win: get out of my cell for a bit and reduce my sentence? I can see why pay is less important for them
True, but most volunteer work doesn’t involve them risking their lives. If they’re doing that, they deserve to get paid well too.
I am of two minds on the subject.
On the one hand, I am a bleeding heart liberal who figures that they have definitively made it clear they can do the job so let them do it.
On the other hand, firefighters (less so the wildfire fighting variety) are often in incredibly tense people centric situations. If we had a penal system that at all cared about rehabilitation I would be all for it. As it stands… background checks exist for a reason. And I still think there needs to be much more thought rather than just “You have a record, get out”.
Regardless: Fucking pay them for the job while they do it.
This I never fully understood. Isn’t the point of prison/community service orders etc. for the person to be punished for the crime or repay their debt to society? In which case, after the punishment has been carried out why continue to punish them further? They’ve done their time and hopefully learned a lesson. I understand background checks as a form of checking a person’s character for certain sensitive roles, but for everything?? Nah, that makes no sense.
American (and many other countries) penal system is about suffering, not rehabilitation.
I think that’s what he’s saying, the system is based on punishment and not rehabilitation so usually repeat offences and/or escalation/different crime types is quite common thus leading to the system where people who have a record at all can’t do much.
If we did have a prison system reform based around rehabilitation, then it would be much easier to ban people’s records from being used against them in the future
I think I remember reading something last month claiming that they’re working on that reform, too.