I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don’t actually think everyone there is insane. I don’t care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point
Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It’s not going to scare me to take this down
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If you’ve heard of Chapo Trap House that’s them. If not, most of those kids/idiots/trolls are the type of terminally online fake leftists that give other leftist a bad image in general. They were so ridiculous Reddit got tired of their shit and banned them a couple years back.
Seeing the ban coming, they financed and suffered alpha and beta of the Lemmy platform we all enjoy. Then, they chose to become the most GLBTQ+ friendly destination on the internet.
As it’s always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.
But, perhaps the part I like most is the struggle sessions. The entire community will heavily focus on a current topic, then hash it out with good faith discussion.
Their shit isn’t convenient or comfortable. It’s not easy to understand. And, I fucking love them for it.
edit: Lazy coders need choose a randomized target value and timing or be a moderator to avoid detection by the user. Perceiving is easy when your code is trash. Ask for help from an industrial engineer.
As it’s always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.
Oh yes, they are so funny, misunderstood, thoughtful and nuanced thinkers.
F them and f you for defending them.
This ~1800 comment thread about whether lemm.ee should defederate with them is all you need for some eye opening, in case anyone needs that.
Above screenshot is from said thread.
The comrade in it actually suggests that there is a time and place for such rhetoric, it is just not right here, right now. you have to think politically and wait for your moment!
The comrade in it actually suggests that there is a time and place for such rhetoric
Perhaps now is the time.
The kulaks were not an ethnic minority persecuted by the bolsheviks as a scapegoat for society’s ills. They were the economic class directly responsible for many of those ills. They were the capitalists of the peasantry, enclosing land and claiming ownership over what should have been the common means of production, precisely the kind of group that communists the world over want to destroy in order to liberate the majority of people.
When it was written that the kulaks were to be “liquidated”, it did not mean that they were to be mass executed, it meant that their private property was to be moved into public ownership, ending the existence of the kulak class and making them into regular workers.
As is the case in every single campaign of economic or social justice, the privileged class fought back with everything they had. Kulaks contributed to the Soviet Famine of 1930-1933 by mass slaughtering their cattle and burning their fields. Kulaks hoarded grain, took the wealth that they had stolen from their neighbors and fled the country, plotted sabotage and insurrection against the workers’ movement. And for those crimes, many Kulaks were caught and executed.
So if the original commenter’s great grandparents were kulaks who “suffered at the hands of the soviet union,” they deserved it.
🤭
You guys don’t even hide it anymore. You’re openly advocating for brutal police regimes. The jokes write themselves. Convenient.
You don’t get to call directing state power against the petite bourgeoisie a brutal police regime when your government is supporting the most brutal dictatorships in Africa, whose violence is directed at the working class.
Yeah I get to do that, because that’s what happened factually, sorry. No amount of whataboutism will change that. I don’t care about Western imperialists, fuck them too.
The vital context is wielding state power against internal threats. Which literally every state must do to continue to exist. It’s not whataboutism to point out that the state you currently live in is currently doing far worse, for far worse reasons in a context where your criticism can only be used for anticommunism.
Would you say it’s constructive for an Israeli to be critical of gay rights in Palestine? Of course not, because divorced of context, it only carries water for imperialism
HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point
Yeah, you can always count on them to brigade.
Yeah. They’ve been downvote bombing me since yesterday. And they were telling me I’m the one that needs to go back to reddit lol
Hexbear, famous for having down votes turned on. But yeah, you’re totally surrounded by secret hexbears all down voting you
Lemmy, famous for not allowing alt accounts 😅
This is why people don’t like hexbear, because they consistently try to gaslight and use disingenous arguments such as this. How are you disputing the fact that OP is getting downvoted by hexbears right now? That’s insane.
Gaslighting? Disingenuous? You’re the one asserting that anyone down voting must be a hexbear alt, by virtue of the fact that nobody could possibly disagree unless they were already a hexbear user.
It’s just a bit circular and not disprovable anyways. Maybe the admins should just check the logs and ban everyone who’s down voted so you can rest easy. Wouldn’t want to have any authoritarians using lemmy.
I never asserted that “anyone downvoting must be a hexbear alt”. There you go again, misrepresenting my point just to feel like you’re winning.
I’m quite sure that non-hexbears are downvoting OP also. But that wasn’t what you said, was it? You could have said that originally, but instead you decided to mock OP and act like he’s crazy and there’s no way he is getting downvoted by hexbear users, which is disingenous and lame.
You know what you’re doing, I don’t need to explain your own bad faith tactics to you.
Just quoting you:
How are you disputing the fact that OP is getting downvoted by hexbears right now?
Between 2 and n “hexbears” (understood to mean “humans afflicted with hexbear mind virus using other servers”) are behaving in some coordinated way. You were pretty clearly implying that it’s some conspiracy rather than simply other users disagreeing with you.
I’m sure there are people who primarily use hexbear and use alts, some of them may even be downvoting you.
I took your assertion to its ridiculous conclusion because it’s a ridiculous thing to be complaining about in the first place, as in not a real problem.
Between 2 and n “hexbears” (understood to mean “humans afflicted with hexbear mind virus using other servers”) are behaving in some coordinated way. You were pretty clearly implying that it’s some conspiracy rather than simply other users disagreeing with you.
Lol what are you on about? People who use hexbear (i.e. hexbears) share similar traits, interests, and behaviors. They use hexbear because they fit in on hexbear, and in order to fit in on hexbear you need to pass an extensive series of ideological purity tests, which result in the homogeneity and cult-like behavior that occurs.
Hexbear is quite explicit about this, they don’t want anyone with any sort of divergent political views on their server. They clearly revel in “dunking on libs” by chain downvoting and harassing people when they say things that the hexbear hive mind disagrees with. And yet always claim innocence when their obvious brigading is called out, as you are currently doing.
It is a real problem for everyone who’s not a hexbear, because it means that we can’t have sane, civil conversations about certain political issues on Lemmy, because CCP apologists and edgelord larping teenage “leftists” constantly butt in and derail the discussion with their potent combination of ignorance and self righteousness.
Not to be a dick, but it seems like you guys are on the same side, so why are you arguing?
That’s ok. Instead of having a normal dialog or civil disagreement, they want to be cowards and try to bully or demean people that disagree with them. Those people that do that are honestly sad and I pity them
… what are you doing in this post? Should I feel sad and pity you?
I was trying to wrap my head around the guy complaining about the lack of civil disagreement, people bullying and demeaning while simultaneously posting a thread calling all the users on what’s one of the largest trans instances on lemmy “insane” in the title before walking it back in the body
think a little clarification is needed. No. I don’t actually think everyone there is insane.
Why make it the post title then unless you’re fishing for negative engagement?
I blocked hex just days after finding out about lemmy and registering. Some super crazy shit going on there.
They just let the hogs shit on balls then they photograph them and crop them into little emoji, don’t ask me why I’m not an anthropologist
I love that without fail every single person in this thread defending hexbears is from ml with the same pronoun tag format every single hexbear seems to have
Almost like they’re hexbear alts or something
I am not from ML nor do I have a Hexbear alt of any sort, but I defend Hexbear’s right to be different. They seem to be a younger group of anti-capitalists so I find their perspectives interesting.
Edit: I am still somewhat new to Lemmy, so maybe there is some history with Hexbear that I am ignorant of, but until I see it for myself, I enjoy their content and will continue to support Hexbear.
I would defend anyone’s right to be different as well. However, that’s not the case here - you said it yourself, you really are missing a huge history between Hexbear.net and… well, everyone else across the Fediverse (and highly ironically, as such they would ruthlessly make fun of you, for speaking without knowing - i.e. you are someone who would defend them, but not vice versa). They poke fun at liberals, conservatives, anyone from the West, etc., and the issue isn’t so much their right to exist or be different, but the need for the rest of the Fediverse to spread their message out in the same manner as all the other messages, which are governed by an entirely different set of policies and code of conduct.
I hope you will agree with me that the rights to do a school shooting, or the right to block someone else’s access to medical care… is really no “right” at all. That is to say that they can be however they like, but the moment that they federate with the rest of the world, it crosses over into our rights, whether we want to receive what they offer or not, and even more so to promote & share it to our own users.
But don’t take my word for it: visit e.g. ChapoTrapHouse or the_dunk_tank and see for yourself. Or here’s an example post, where they took a poll on which other instances to deferate from, then promptly ignored the results that said no and defederated from them anyway:-P lemm.ee for instance had 41 votes to keep it and only 4 for it to go, but despite the additional order of magnitude and some passionate responses defending the former (e.g. “But man we should at least stay federated with lemm.ee, that instance’s admin has been very reasonable and it hasn’t caused much trouble at all; nothing that banning any troublemakers can’t fix.”), they defederated from it anyway. And the reasons stated to keep it are also informative - basically so that they can proselytize to them, though notice the distinct lack of wanting to converse with them as equals. And that is just one instance, among the very few that will even consider federation with hexbear.net to begin with. Also, to balance that out, read lemm.ee’s policy on federation with hexbear.net - notice how 100% polar opposite it is, not just in terms of facts but of behaviors.
There is also programming.dev’s response, tldr version: “Hexbear defederated from us so to prevent one way conversations I have added them to our blocklist as well. If the hexbear admins decide to unblock us I can do the same”… followed in the very next post by “It is very likely we will be federating with Hexbear again…” - which despite the fact that that did not end up happening (as of September 8, 2024 I can see hexbear.net on their instances list, make sure to switch the tab at the top to “Blocked Instances”), I want to point out how extremely friendly other instance admins continue to try to be, towards them, though this behavior seems to have never been rewarded in return. And it’s not just these two instances - there are so very many, here’s another at sh.itjust.works, where they thought long & hard about it (mind you this is an EXTREMELY permissive server, chock-full of reasonable-minded people, which you’ll see as/if you read the other posts in that community), and somewhat shockingly seemed ready to do the defederation, but before they could, once again hexbear.net preemptively did it first, thus making the issue moot.
In short, they know exactly how they are - and many people routinely flee from it to spread elsewhere in an attempt to get away from the extremely heavy-handed authoritarian moderation/admin practices. When you tolerate the intolerant though…
If you enjoy LGBTQIA+ content, it is everywhere, e.g. the variety of blahaj’s that exist - the most popular of which is https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/, with the highest number of users (and to reveal my own bias, I’ve never seen anything written from their admin, Ada, that I have not thoroughly enjoyed reading - if I could follow accounts on the Fediverse, this is one of a mere handful of people across the entire world that I think I would do that for:-). Similarly with “different”/odd content - we love being different here on the Fediverse:-) - and again with left-leaning content (in fact people that are not left-leaning are quite rare).
But I advise to steer well clear of bigots. Except of course to learn about the situation - definitely check it out, and then you’ll know. I know it looks like shit-posting, especially with the rather poor choice of wording in OP’s title, but there truly is an actual history behind all of this. The shit-talking looks casual, but it’s not: hexbear has truly earned most of the ire that is directed its way. And they seem okay with that, some even seem proud of it? :-P
You made a huge wall of text with some claims not borne out by your links, did you even fully read what you were citing or did you skim looking for things to confirm your argument?
From you:
Took a poll on which other instances to deferate from, then promptly ignored the results that said no and defederated from them anyway:-P lemm.ee for instance had 41 votes to keep it and only 4 for it to go, but despite the additional order of magnitude and some passionate responses defending the former (e.g. “But man we should at least stay federated with lemm.ee, that instance’s admin has been very reasonable and it hasn’t caused much trouble at all; nothing that banning any troublemakers can’t fix.”), they defederated from it anyway. An
From the hexbear discussion
However, as expressed by users belonging to marginalized groups, comments from .ee users are often lib-shit and in some cases outright hostile. While many on hexbear love dunking on these lost libs the duty to protect marginalized users is much more importantAgain quoting you:
at sh.itjust.works, where they thought long & hard about it (mind you this is an EXTREMELY permissive server, chock-full of reasonable-minded people,
The hexbear thread expressed the same rationale to block “shits fulla chuds” the fact that you characterize them as reasonable-minded people speaks volumes about you personally.
Just checking in with how someone from a marginalized community felt about this situation: https://hexbear.net/post/497935
Is posting a meme to "own the liberals" worth your comrades getting more trauma from bigots harassing them?No its not.you've had your laugh, but it should endBan them all, SJW, lemm.ee, lemmy, the programmer nazi edglords. Keep Lemmygrad.I was ready to take you seriously but if you’re misrepresenting your very first points that’s a lot harder. You’ve been doing more than that, you’ve been inverting the actual history and in the process ommitted the actual options of marginalized people to suit your narrative.
If you enjoy LGBTQIA+ content, it is everywhere, e.g. the variety of blahaj’s that exist - the most popular of which is https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/, with the highest number of users (and to reveal my own bias, I’ve never seen anything written from their admin, Ada, that I have not thoroughly enjoyed reading
Hexbear is majority non-cis, and its weekly trans megatheads are extremely active. I already looked into this, they have done several polls, and have chatted with a number of them since I started moderating /c/transgender
But I advise to steer well clear of bigots. Except of course to learn about the situation - definitely check it out, and then you’ll know.
Are you trying to imply that they’re bigots now? On what basis? If anything you’ve said enough to make me suspect you more than anyone else.
Edit: like clockwork, I check the mod log and you posted this embarrassing comment 8 months ago and got mocked roundly for it. I can see why you’re still holding a grudge now.
lol:
In my case my hexbear account is an alt of my lemm.ee account
Many of them, yes. They’re among the most radical of the leftist instances, which means that they attract a lot of propagandists and tankies. They have some perfectly reasonable people too, but you know, vocal minority. Its the main thing most people notice about those instances.
Many people block hexbear, Lemmy.ml, and lemmygrad for these reasons.
What is a ‘tankie’?
Someone ideologically somewhere between his greatest heroes, Stalin and Mao.
Childish? Kinda. Insane? No.
There are three relevant things to say about hexbear.
1. It is not a serious instance. Or at least not completely serious; they’re mostly there for memes, funposting, “I know that feel” etc.
So they’re less like the meeting room of a communist party than like the bar where those communists hang out and drink beer, after the meeting is over.
I feel like this is often misinterpreted, as HB users say something that is mostly a taunt and others interpret as actual argumentation. And it also tends to attract younger users, who… well, behave like young people?
2. Even if not a serious instance, they’re serious about their views. Your typical HB user is communist, antifa, vegan, anti-cop, and interprets things in a very specific way. They’re rather transparent about it.
And, because of #1, they aren’t really willing to spend their time entertaining anyone’s counterpoints. It’ll be interpreted as sealioning or similar.
3. Hexbear was already its own thing before federation. As such it developed social norms that often conflict with the norms typically found in the rest of the Threadiverse (Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed etc.)
For example, even if Lemmy as a whole is prone to intrusive political discussions, HB users tend to do it far more. Because they’re used to an environment where this is typically taken as OK.
When it comes to dealing with HB users here, my advice is the exact same as dealing with other users:
- if you don’t like what someone is saying (because it’s idiotic, obstrusive, or whatever), block the person for some peace of mind.
- if you’re consistently uninterested on the content coming from an instance, block the instance.
antifa
Yeah, the famous antifa-tankers. Every single person I’ve ever seen that identifies as antifa was a tanker. Other people run away from that label.
I really hate that I need to point this out, because I feel like it will derail the discussion from Hexbear to fascism:
“Antifa” boils down to “people who actively oppose fascism”, instead of either supporting it or sitting on their hands while doing jack shit.
But if you’re anti fascism but pro authoritarianism, you’re still wrong…
Plenty HB users are authoritarian. I disagree with them in this; however I don’t think that both things cancel out, given the fascism is orders of magnitude worse than authoritarianism alone.
Aaaand you’re low-key defending authoritarianism…
This guy knows nothing of the political spectrum.
Liberalism in the center? Gosh, this is the most American political coordinates there could be
It’s almost physically triggering how off-base that is
To be clear, this is coming from you getting banned for being a debate-pervert after you claimed Putin invaded Ukraine to “reinstate the USSR” as a secret Commie and refused to take a pro-Palestinian stance, equating Palestinian resistance with a century of settler-colonial genocide.
I think it’s a bit terminally online to run away to a defederated instance to lick your wounds, rather than reflect on why being a debatebro is unhealthy.
Everyone knows Putin invaded Ukraine because he’s a dumbass dictator who started to believe his own propaganda. It’s the dictator trap. Putin surrounded himself with backstabbing yes men by literally killing anyone who wasn’t.
As to Palestinian resistance. I don’t think Hamas is a good resistance movement. For a whole host of reasons. Which is why the Israeli government has been propping them up since the 80s.
An unsympathetic resistance movement can do more to damage a cause than not having a movement at all.
From now until the ethnic cleansing is complete, Israel will call any resistance movement Hamas, regardless of their actual name or beliefs. I’m not sure how to fight that… I don’t think anyone really knows beyond screaming the truth everywhere we can.
It didn’t work in the 1920s in Europe. But maybe with the Internet… Likely not though.
Everyone knows Putin invaded Ukraine because he’s a dumbass dictator who started to believe his own propaganda. It’s the dictator trap. Putin surrounded himself with backstabbing yes men by literally killing anyone who wasn’t.
Do you have any evidence of this? Could it be that there were economic factors at play, and rational actors, regardless of morality or immorality? This seems utterly vibe-based and lacks a materialist analysis, so I’d love evidence.
From now until the ethnic cleansing is complete, Israel will call any resistance movement Hamas, regardless of their actual name or beliefs. I’m not sure how to fight that… I don’t think anyone really knows beyond screaming the truth everywhere we can.
Hamas isn’t the only resistance group in Palestine, there are others such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. The key though is that Israel has been committing settler-colonial genocide for a century, oppressed peoples have a right to use violence against their oppressors, especially when non-violent means have tried and failed, and especially in the face of active genocide.
Equating Hamas to Israel equates resistance to genocide with genocide itself.
There was no economic or rational factors. The only thing that makes a lick of sense is the irrational.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/putin-dictator-trap-russia-ukraine/627064/
Those are a warm-up, but then you have the purges since the invasion began.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-purges-in-putins-shrinking-inner-circle
Putin has sort of been the butt of jokes for years for killing anyone who looks at him funny. He’s a KGB stooge, who made his career out of backstabbing and paranoia. His entire inner circle were afraid to tell him the truth, because he would kill them if they did.
He’s never been “savvy”, he’s just been willing to kill as many people as necessary to secure his own power.
The classic authoritarian dictator who throws people out of windows for saying no. And whose vaulted military had body armor made of cardboard, because the corruption was so ingrained that every single level was accepting bribes and stealing shit.
I’m surprised that they’re still going, but Russia has shown the world that they’re a third rate military, at best.
As to Palestine. It doesn’t matter what the resistance movements call themselves now. Israel will just say they’re Hamas, and no one likes Hamas. There are good reasons not to like Hamas, they’re religious extremists who want to kill all Jews.
And for decades, Israel has funded Hamas behind the scenes, while coming down extra heavy on any other resistance movement. And now it’s all paid off for them because they can just claim that anyone they kill was actually Hamas.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
This tactic of creating the perfectly detestable opposition has been used in quite a few places. For example, Greenpeace gets a lot of money from oil company heirs. Specifically the Rockefeller family.
I doubt anyone from Hamas, or Greenpeace, ever took orders from the people giving them money. They were given the money with no strings attached, because they were already jackasses. The money just extended their reach.
There are absolutely rational reasons for Russia to invade Ukraine.
Looking back to the dissolution and subsequent plundering of the USSR, there became a rising Bourgeoisie within the Russian Federation. Since there wasn’t already Imperialist infrastructure for the Russian Federation to exploit the Third World (large, monopoly and financial Capitalists with international footholds), Putin tried to join NATO and join hands with the rest of the Imperialist western nations, and take “their share” of the super-profits. This was denied, and thus began a long few decades of growing tensions between NATO and the Russian Federation.
Ukraine on the other hand has been increasingly militarized, with anti-Russian sentiments rising. NATO increased expansion against Russian requests, leading to Russia trying to forcibly demilitarize Ukraine.
Regardless of morals, there is a material basis for this conflict.
As for Palestine, again, the oppressed have the rights to use violence to free themselves, especially if non-violence hasn’t worked, and in the face of genocide.
Ukraine has been super militarized with anti-Russian sentiments rising since they illegally stole a part of their country in 2014 and started providing money, arms, vehicles, and soldiers to separatists premised on said separatists murdering their fellow citizens and providing a thin pretext for Russia ultimately taking more of Ukraine.
Given the profoundly destructive nature of any such conflict with Russia and the impossibility of winning or even surviving without a coalition of supporters there is zero chance of Ukraine ever starting a conflict with Russia itself.
Given the risk of nuclear war and the impossibility of pushing Ukraine to start such a conflict there was never any chance of NATO either starting such a conflict OR being able to start one by proxy.
It’s hard to argue that Russia had security concerns when the only person in a position to light this candle is themselves.
NATO was virtually entirely a mutual defense pact vs Russia in their previous incarnation as the USSR. Inducting Russia into NATO would only serve to give them veto power and influence on an org which virtually exists to defend against THEM! It makes no coherent sense nor would it somehow provide the Russians some share of “super profits” it would solely give them an opportunity to undermine NATO which is why Putin wanted it.
The material basis for stealing the Ukrainians country from them and murdering its children is that by doing so they gain access to tax payers, resources, people, strategic resources, land, fossil fuels etc. Based on what we know about their strategic planning we have every reason to believe they thought this would be an inexpensive and quick affair that would be concluded in a matter of days with minimal loss of life.
It is purely a function of avarice, stupidity, and immorality. It is no more complicated than asking why a burglar invaded a home and took the lives of people there when he just ended up leaving bloody himself. They did it because they thought it would profit them and because they thought they could get away with it.
NATO was virtually entirely a mutual defense pact vs Russia in their previous incarnation as the USSR.
This “defense pact” has invaded, bombed and destroyed many countries within only my lifetime, it’s a laughable statement unless your historical horizon is less than a decade.
Living in America it’s incredible to me how people I run into don’t even know the countries that their own government has invaded using its “defense pact”, or pay attention to people whose lives they’ve ruined, and thus can’t even understand why people see them as a threat.
