- cross-posted to:
- palestine@lemm.ee
- cross-posted to:
- palestine@lemm.ee
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I can’t believe there are actually people who are surprised about his ‘proposal’ at all. Like… everyone saw this coming, right? Plenty of people have been warning other people for years that Trump would do this sort of shit.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just an alarmist fearmonger. Or whatever they used to call me.
Plenty of people have been warning other people for years that Trump would do this sort of shit.
Frankly, he is just saying the quiet part out loud.
Or, do you think Israel ever didn’t intend to do genocide?
Oh no, of course not. Fucking Zionists.
What I meant was that it should be a surprise to no one that Trump says these things. He’s been letting the world know who he is for a long time. You’re right, no more dog whistles, but not exactly a surprise either.
It isn’t a surprise, no one’s surprised.
I don’t mean to defend the Democrats, but the Pro-Palestine crowd has been throwing all the blame on the Democratic Party for the Gaza genocide. Which was wrong-headed as it was pretty obvious that the Trump admin would double down on US support to Israel… where the Democrats did do something to resolve the conflict.
where the Democrats did do something to resolve the conflict.
What are you referring to? Biden claimed to be “working toward” a ceasefire for 15 months then Trump’s ambassador went over there for 3 days and the ceasefire immediately happened.
Trump is pro-genocide and has no problem wiping out all Palestinian life but him and Biden are equally as bad on this issue
I don’t mean to defend the Democrats, but the Pro-Palestine crowd has been throwing all the blame on the Democratic Party for the Gaza genocide.
The Pro-Palestine crowd has been throwing all the blame on the Democratic party for the Gaza genocide because the Democratic party was in power for all of the span of the genocide until Trump and Republicans took power a week ago or so.
Let me explain this to you and please listen, now the Pro-Palestine crowd will throw all the additional blame on the Republican Party and Donald Trump for being in power as the genocide worsens because we all know it tragically very likely wilI.
That is how being against this works for most. It isn’t that hard to grasp.
You have to remember though, the pro-Palestinian crowd doesn’t care about the rhetoric the parties deliver to the domestic American audience. Obviously the Democrats repeatedly claiming their working towards a peaceful resolution while not actually doing so, rather than Trump just coming out and taking the mask off matters a hell of a lot more than the actual damage and death happening in Gaza, but good luck convincing the loony pro-Palestinians of that.
Backlash only matters if he or anyone he surrounds himself with actually gives a shit.
Hell, it only matters if anyone cares, and based on the Dems and GOP in the US, neither of them really, honestly care. And most Harris supporters don’t care either, as well as, well, I can safely say no Trump voters care.
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Yeah it is there fault we lost!
Not the fact that democratic party did worse than nothing to listen to the voices of people with connections to Palestinians.
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Of course it is ethnic cleansing. But in his opinion, it is the good kind of ethnic cleansing. Just like deporting immigrants, or sometimes even Native Americans…
Of course, if USA really wants the Gaza population to be displaced, it would be consistent for them to take on a significant proportion of them as immigrants.
And they wouldn’t even be undocumented migrants!
But they would still be brown :(
And they’ll eventually realise that “good” ethnic cleansing is actually quite expensive, and who will really miss them anyway?
Trump’s administration should really just come up with some sort of, ‘last answer’. Something cheaper than deportation, doesn’t let those undesirables the opportunity to come back in, and sends a message to any other undesirables. I just can’t think of what that could be. /S
Oohhh, like some sort of solution? Like one that’s final?? Hmmm…
US President Donald Trump is facing widespread criticism and accusations of proposing ethnic cleansing after stating that he would like to “just clean out” Gaza and relocate its Palestinian population to neighbouring countries.
Speaking aboard Air Force One during a flight from Las Vegas to Miami on Saturday, Trump described Gaza as a “demolition site” and suggested moving its residents to Jordan and Egypt.
“I’d like Egypt to take people. I’d like Jordan to take people,” Trump said. “You’re talking about probably a million and a half people, and we just clean out that whole thing.”
He added that the move could be either temporary or long-term, saying, “something has to happen”
To everybody who voted against Kamala Harris because she didn’t change her stance on Gaza, how does it feel to be played harder than a tenor saxophone?
Well at least it’s not genocide!
/s
The “two parties are the same,” “Genocide Joe” people are literally quibbling about that just to maintain their arguments and it’s depressing.
Well after all, if you argue with them, you’re a genocide supporting liberal troll. Sometimes in all caps, even!
I always tell them how many hours a week (until recently, for unrelated issues) I have spent sending emails, making phone calls and even visiting politicians’ offices to beg for them to do something about the genocide and ask them if they have even sent one form email or made one phone call.
The closest I got to anyone saying they did anything of actual note was someone who hilariously told me that they couldn’t tell me what they did because it would ruin their anonymity. As if there would be no possible way to put it in general terms.
I even ask them if they ever have talked to a Palestinian about what they think. But of course not. Because they don’t actually care about genocide, they care about berating people and playing political games on the internet.
Performative outrage is so much easier than working towards real change though!
You mean like being outraged people are unwilling to vote for you, because you fully endorsed a genocide?
Or the performative outage at the genocide now, that was somehow “Just a practical necessity” just about 30 days ago?
If genocide support wasn’t your bright line before, why is it suddenly your bright line?
I’m sorry you lost me there mate. Let’s take them in order
I’m not and have never been a political candidate.
The performative outrage of which I speak is people encouraging that the Democrats be punished despite the explicitly stated desire and highly probable outcome of the Republicans enabling greater atrocities, whilst disregarding the harder and more useful work of pushing individuals to oppose the genocide within the existing system of reality
What is this even meant to mean? This is precisely the performative outrage of which I speak, and it doesn’t even carry semantic weight. It’s just useless pseudo-accusatory sentiment
The performative outrage of which I speak is people encouraging that the Democrats be punished despite the explicitly stated desire and highly probable outcome of the Republicans enabling greater atrocities, whilst disregarding the harder and more useful work of pushing individuals to oppose the genocide within the existing system of reality
How do you push elected reps to not genocide, if there are never repercussions for it, because you’ll still always vote for them?
And what greater atrocities are there than genocide? Its like the one thing the entire world (At one point) agreed on, and called it “Crimes against humanity”…
The closest I got to anyone saying they did anything of actual note was
Well, let me assure you, I’ve done more than just phone calls and emails. However, I cannot admit to them publicly.
That’s a real cop-out and you know it. You could say something extremely general, but you won’t, because you haven’t done a thing.
I’ve done something extremely general.
Fuck these people, really. What did they think would happen with Trump?
They don’t care. They have never cared. This thread makes that abundantly clear.
They’re narcissists. They only care about how they look.
They thought he would pull support for Ukraine and let Russia keep what they’d taken.
After all, that’s what they asked him to do.
The same thing that happened under Biden, and would have happened under Harris.
And now we would not be surprised if Trump builds some beach resorts there once the Palestinians are gone. I hope you are happy with your endorsement of Trump.
Aren’t there fewer gazans being exterminated now than 1 month ago?
God damn, I mean technically, you’re right.
Yeah and at this rate, soon enough Israel will completely run out of Gazans to exterminate!
I wholeheartedly agree in the anti-genocidal sentiment, and I’ve personally been engaged in protests against it.
An awful lot of those people are russian bots. But it’s not like you can say that on pro Palestinian spaces, because any comments pointing out how delusional protest voting is or how much worse things are getting because of trump will get removed for racism.
Hi I voted for Harris and am pro Palestinian, stop repeating the lie that we are all like this.
I wasn’t? I literally just said that pointing out that trump is worse for Palestine will get your comment removed from a lot of places. I said nothing at all about Harris voters. Just that lemmy has a fascist/delusional tankie problem.
How do you propose the voters try to push their representatives to actually represent them, if there’s never a repercussion to the representative?
You won’t, lobbyists will always be louder than voters. It’s a rigged system, but it’s rigged in such a way that you can either fail or fail much harder. Other than that you have protests (which have become a lot more dangerous) and doing a Luigi. But noone cares about a few people not voting out of protest, turnout is extremely low anyway.
Genocide is the word you’re looking for
#neckpussy
You’ll often see Zionists condemn Egypt and Syria for not taking the Palestinians “oh the Palestinians are so bad that even the other Muslim countries won’t take them”. No, they just don’t want to be complicit in ethnic cleansing.
Centrists are suddenly unhappy now that trump is implementing their only policy for them.
Here is my bOtHsIdEs Pikachu face. :|
I’m sure Kamala was going to be exactly the same. /s
I’m sure Kamala was going to be exactly the same. /s
Pretty much the only difference is she wouldn’t say it out loud, frankly. She clearly stated she had Israel’s back, regardless of what anyone said. I mean, look at how she reacted to people stating, to her face, that they could not vote for her, due to that.
And what did she do? She doubled down on her support for the genocide.
She was, the only difference is she wouldn’t come out and say it bluntly to the American public.
Fuck off with this nonsense. Kamala would literally push the same policies, just like Joe did. The only difference would be that she’d use vague and hollow language to keep a pretense of humanity up so people could continue pretending that they themselves are not contributing to this atrocity. Your naive picture of mainstream Democrats is why that party continues to be as ineffective as it’s been for 50 years. I welcome all the neoliberal Lemmy downvotes. Assholes.
Interesting how you’re more interested in condemning Biden and Harris for this thing they didn’t do than Trump for doing it. In fact, you seem very unbothered by the actual plan here because the Democrats weren’t involved.
Russian propaganda is a powerful thing.
I can’t even blame Russia at this point. These people seriously do not give a shit about this genocide apart from the political points it can score them.
Go to hexbear’s mutual_aid community, look at the posts there, and tell me again how much more .world cares about palestinians
ROFL! Hexbear.
Go, look
What does Hexbear have to do with anything?
In fact, you seem very unbothered by the actual plan here because the Democrats weren’t involved.
The difference is? Trump didn’t lie about it, he said, outright this is what he was going to do. Harris planned to do the exact same thing, but with a pride flag, and it would have been a woman making the bombs being dropped onto kids.
You also seem very unbothered by this plan.
I will think back to threads like this every time I wonder why Democrats never achieve anything meaningful and the country continues to lurch toward fascism. You all seem to be more interested in team sports than actually having principles and expectations for your own party.
The “leftists” on here literally supported Trump. Their reason doesn’t matter, they’re fascism-enabling Trump supporters in every way that matters.
If you didn’t vote, or if you didn’t vote for Kamala, you helped Trump get elected. That’s not politics, it’s math.
The “leftists” on here literally supported Trump.
I’m a leftist, and I do not, nor have ever, supported Trump. I just didn’t support the other genocider, either. Because I have principles that I stand on, one of which is “Never give support to genociders”.
I’m glad you feel good about yourself. Your inaction is part of the problem.
Your inaction is part of the problem.
Why isn’t Harris’ inaction part of the problem? I mean, she could have said,“You know, genocide is bad, and when I take office, I will end all support for Israel until they agree to an immediate ceasefire?”
The “leftists” on here literally supported Trump
We fucking didn’t. Not voting for Kamala isn’t supporting Trump, it’s just rejecting genocide. If democrats passed progressive policy and stopped a genocide, they might have had a chance, but they’d rather lose the elections to a fascist than actually pushing progressive policy.
There were no actual leftists on the ballot in every state that campaigned beyond the election year. Kamala was the realistic option. It’s perfectly reasonable to be conflicted about voting for someone because they’re the lesser of two evils, but there’s nothing rational thinking a leftist or faux leftist candidate that only shows up during election years had a realistic chance of winning.
It’s perfectly reasonable to be conflicted about voting for someone because they’re the lesser of two evils,
There is no “conflicted” on whether or not I should support a genocider. How well do you sleep at night, knowing you supported a genocider?
Exactly, so you make it clear to the democrats in the meanwhile: either you move to the left, or eat shit. They decided to do the latter. Now start blaming them for the loss and move towards organising labour and political orgs
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That everyone who disagrees with me is a “neoliberal”?
No, just that anyone who doesn’t cut off someone for being a genocider is a neoliberal ghoul.
This too shall pass and once it has, we shall remember the names of those that pushed genocides, those that pushed anti science that will inevitably cause the next pandemic.
I mean this is a pretty weak ass take and it’s not even really right. Like after this “passes” we will be fully locked in to rocketing off the edge of the climate abyss and there is nothing anyone could possibly do to prevent it. They will try with Geo engineering but that’s a toss up at best.
No one will remember anyone.
Climate change has a relatively cheap and easy solution.
Aresol sprays can buy a few decades of time if things get too hot.
We already have cheap solar and cheap batteries are becoming a reality. We only need a cheap, non-intermittent energy source to provide baseload energy. Cheap nuclear power is possible and can fill that niche - we had the tech in the past and China has it today.
For about $1T a fleet of reactors could be built to extract all the excess carbon from the atmosphere in 50 years, working in tandem with cheap solar energy and cheap batteries to power human civilization.
Its not cheap and not a solution.
It will give us a temporary reprieve at best. We still need to solve the issue by lowering the CO2 in the environment. Chemically speaking, you’ll basically have to spend the same amount of energy to pull all the CO2 out as we got over the past 200 year by putting that CO2 in the atmosphere.
That is if we have 100% efficient machines, however. In reality most combustion engines get 30% at best. Electrical system to pull it out will do some 70%? Let’s call it 50 on both, so you’ll have to double the amount of energy that this cost twice.
Basically, to get CO2 back to preindustrial levels we’ll have to spend 4x the amount of ALL the energy we’ve spent over the past 200 years.
You say it’s cheap? Basically double all energy prices (and with that, the prices of everything and destroy all economies) for, say, the next 50 years or so and generate twice the amount of electricity we do now, and we’ll be fine.
Why comment if you don’t understand physics. I’m not saying turn the carbon into hydrocarbons, which is wat you are implying.
Carbon sequestration takes way less energy than the energy released during burning.
Why comment when you’re just randomly going to claim that ther person you disagree with must not know the subject because they disagree with you?
Sure, don’t convert back to hydro carbons. Where are you going to store all that CO2 in a way that you know it guaranteed won’t escape?
Do you have any idea how much CO2 you’re talking about? Are you going to store it in high pressure tanks? Are you going to freeze it maybe and put it in caves? Pump the gas underground and pray it won’t sleep out?
The reason that I’m talking about converting it back to hydrocarbons is exactly that: you need to store it somewhere stable and reliable. For the incredible amounts that we have to store, there aren’t that many options beyond making hydro carbons and storing those
Perhaps read an introductory article on carbon storage, or ask ChatGPT:
Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS): This involves capturing CO₂ emissions from industrial sources, transporting it, and storing it underground in geological formations.
Direct Air Capture (DAC): This technology captures CO₂ directly from the air and stores it underground or uses it in industrial processes
It’s a sad state of affairs that a fellow human being is more insufferable to talk to than an AI.
Are you under the delusion the climate disaster is confined solely to energy production?
Also the laws of thermodynamics say that pulling all of that carbon out the air would be not only inefficient to the extreme and take centuries, it would also use far more energy than we currently produce ON THE PLANET.
I have no idea where you got 50 years from, but that’s a joke. we couldn’t build the shit you would need to do it in 50 years.
The laws of thermodynamics say no such thing. Plants use solar energy to extract carbon from the atmosphere daily.
We could farm fast growing crops and bury them to sequester the carbon, but using nuclear energy is going to be cheaper and require less land.
E = mc2
People really don’t understand the massive amount of low carbon energy we have at our disposal with nuclear fission.
An unwillingness to use it just means we don’t want to solve climate change and would rather have our little “oh noes, world is ending” panic.
China seems to be the only big economy that understands the reality and they will probably solve climate change for the rest of the planet by 2050.
How long does it take to build a reactor: 15-25 yrs each Main component of construction: Concrete, a major contributor to CO2 emissions How many would we need to produce the energy required to run carbon capture infrastructure: ~1500
For your alternative, it has more merits but the main drawbacks come down to where do you grow it, and how does that effect the environment around it. Growing a shitton of kelp is going to create problems with nutrition in that area. I like this method most but the scalability is still a major problem. The amount you would need to grow is STAGGERING. I don’t know how we could do that and still have any coastal sea left open. Maybe massive floating barges in the open ocean.
It only takes that much time and cost in the West, because we killed nuclear with regulations.
Look how many reactors China is building.
I refuse to take anyone seriously that spouts this level of ignorance on technological matters.
You were claiming that a single country could undo all of this. I really don’t know how you take yourself seriously. Look at any data. There hasn’t been a pause in acceleration let alone a slowdown.
Its even cheaper than your estimates…
We just need to plant trees, and get our forests to grow again. Like, the earth has these fabulous organisms that clean greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere… And they are self-replicating!
And due to climate change, they are sadly burning like crazy.
when utilitarianism seems less burdensome than whatever twisted knot the “genocide joe” folks have to tell themselves justify their actions, you gotta wonder about the choices they made.
when utilitarianism seems less burdensome
How burdensome was it to watch 40K Palestinians die at the hands of weapons made, and supplied, by the US, and fully supported by Biden?
The carnage in Palestine is far reduced now than it was a month ago. I have no confidence that it will hold, but so far the only way that Trump has been worse than Biden on the issue is that Trump is explicit in his rhetoric as opposed to trying to sugar coat it. I realize that to Americans, who are only directly effected by the genocide in so far as hearing about it makes them sad, having their leaders tell them soothing lies means everything, but to those actually in Palestine, it doesn’t make a material difference.
So “not sugarcoating it” is supplying the Israeli government with the penetrating bombs that increase civilian casualties that Biden halted?
Biden may have been largely indifferent to Gazans but Trump is actively hostile and will encourage the brutality in spite of other pressures such as the ICC, which we already see him pushing the ICC to relieve Netanyahu.
Genocide Joe was actually doing ethnic cleansing, so far trump is only talking about it
Edit: I guess trump is actually doing it too, they’re both equally bad on this
Oh, did his administration stop supplying weapons to Israel?
So you agree that supplying weapons to Israel for the last 15 months was ethnic cleansing. You agree that Biden and Trump are both pro-ethnic cleansing
Oh, so now providing weapons to Israel is ethnic cleansing?
If a known mass murderer asks for a gun and bullets do you consider it ethical to give them an assault rifle and 10,000 rounds and then refuse to even remotely resist when they proceed to use those items to commit mass murder?
I don’t, no. But people like the person I’m replying to have spend the last fifteen months insisting it’s fine.
Love that all the pearl clutchers are in this thread to say that NOW the genocide is bad, as if they’ll catch leftists in a whataboutism.
The truth is that Trump is giving the same carte blanche that Biden did to Bibi. It remains on the people of Israel to stop this conflict, as it always has. You can’t pretend the genocide is only bad when your enemy is doing it, this was the same plan under Biden. Trump just likes bragging about the cruelty, whereas Biden was smart enough to pretend to care.
Both candidates are bad on one issue so it’s all the same! No. Fuck you.
People clicked this thread for the topic of this issue. So, he’s making a point about this one issue. Don’t see any statements claiming Trump has a level head on anything else.
Both candidates were bad on a lot of issues, but I’m glad you jumped to a conclusion that I never stated to prove my point so quickly.
Well, one candidate was bad on their economic policies. Starting off with “The economy is doing fabulously, so you poor people just need to shut up, and vote for me because you owe me your vote” policy…
Voting for the guy who campaigned on taking actions that would very obviously make it even worse for the poor people, over the guy who tried many things to further help poor people but was blocked by the opposing party in Congress, was a real big brain move of yours.
Jokes on you, I gritted my teeth, and voted for Harris. I just didn’t aid her campaign, and chose to 100% work on a local socialists’ campaign.
Same
I’m glad you saw the importance of working locally. Too many third party wishers think they can jump immediately to the presidency
Given how concerned you are with 3rd party voters, surly you’re working towards replacing First-past-the-post voting in your state.
The election is over, now is the time to make the changes we need so people can vote outside the two party system with no spoiler effect.
So, which is it? Do you support democracy or do you get off screeching at disenfranchised voters to vote for your blue conservatives?
Yeah… how silly to base the economy doing well on data and facts. My gut tells me it’s bad.
If the whole world is doing badly economically, but we’re doing much LESS badly, then the economy is fine. What’s NOT good is education, which is why people aren’t smart enough to see this.
Yeah… how silly to base the economy doing well on data and facts.
Oh, data you’re interested in?
Ok, how about the data point that says homelessness is skyrocketing? Does that mean economy good, just because stonk line goes up?
If the whole world is doing badly economically, but we’re doing much LESS badly, then the economy is fine
Less bad is not at all the same thing as “doing great”.
What’s NOT good is education, which is why people aren’t smart enough to see this.
Yes, people are not smart enough to see if you have mass homelessness, mass food insecurity, and people considering copycatting a CEO killer… The economy is doing great!
You’re adorable. Homelessness went up, but unemployment is way down. I didn’t say we were doing great… but Biden kept us from being as bad as everyone else. That’s successful leadership.
Biden doesn’t control the things you’re crying about… and Trump will DEFINITELY make it worse.
You maybe think unemployment is down, because people now have 2 jobs each, and still starving and homeless?
No, the economy is shit. And Harris was telling everyone the economy was great.
Gotcha… why didn’t you just START with “I’m stupid, and am immune to facts”? You’d have saved me time.
If you strip all the politics of nuance, everyone is exactly the same and nothing ever happens
definitively yes
The day Trump actually tempers a decision based on the feedback the world gives him, I’ll eat my hat. He doesn’t give a shit about this kind of criticism. He’s right. Everyone else is wrong. One of the few genuine stable geniuses in this world.
