Incase anyone tells you that lemmy.ml is not a tankie instance.

  • PugJesus@lemmy.worldM
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    2 months ago

    Apparently thinking that Ed Snowden has better PR than intentions is a violation of dogma.

    • bigboig@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 months ago

      Maybe people who hold power are all conniving bastards to some degree, and all of them should have their dirty laundry aired.

      Makes me think lemmy tankies can’t admit even their saints are flawed humans, too, because that’d mean they could never become perfect and can’t bear ever being wrong.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldM
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        2 months ago

        Please don’t air my dirty laundry 🥺

        Joking aside, I have two primary problems with Snowden.

        1. His leaks were not just of the moral variety, but also exposed US spycraft. That’s… not great.

        2. I would have been much more convinced of his idealism, even as a change of heart from his prior opinions, had he gone somewhere other than fucking Russia. You expect me to believe you’re too moral to stand by while the US spies on its own people, and then go and settle quietly under Putin’s regime? Moron, hypocrite, or actual authoritarian scumbag, it doesn’t matter to me at this point. I have no desire to see him jailed at this point, but he’s no hero to my eyes.

        • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I’m pretty sure Snowden is very opposed to Putin and everything the Kremlin does. He knew he’d be safe there. It was a smart move, evidenced by the fact that over a decade later, the world’s richest government hasn’t arrested him. Do you agree with the politics of your country’s leaders? I certainly don’t, but that doesn’t make me immoral for living here.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldM
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            2 months ago

            I’m pretty sure Snowden is very opposed to Putin and everything the Kremlin does.

            Ah, is that why he was pushing the “Ukrainian invasion is a Western psyop” line before February 24?

            There are any number of countries without extradition treaties with the US, and many that have treaties and regularly refuse. Choosing the worst of them, a fascist state? Doesn’t look too good.

            • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              I’m not aware of that. Source? I was looking for something about this and all I found was an article saying he should speak up about the war. Which seems to ignore the difficult position he’s in where he can get murdered by the Kremlin easily. We know this happens in Russia all the time. Even despite that, from the article:

              On February 16, 2022, Snowden wrote: “’Russia should not invade Ukraine’. The reason I don’t say it more is because it’s a non-statement: everybody agrees with it, even Russians. The only people who think slogans solve the problem are people who don’t understand the conflict.”

              Also, you’re actually suggesting he was aligned with Russia from the beginning and that’s why he went there?

              • PugJesus@lemmy.worldM
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                2 months ago

                “’Russia should not invade Ukraine’. The reason I don’t say it more is because it’s a non-statement: everybody agrees with it, even Russians. The only people who think slogans solve the problem are people who don’t understand the conflict.”

                https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/18/the-trouble-with-edward-snowden

                https://www.benzinga.com/news/22/10/29391138/edward-snowden-criticized-by-black-swan-author-for-describing-putins-invasion-of-ukraine-as-fighting

                https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-02-16/Snowden-questions-veracity-of-reports-about-invasion-of-Ukraine-17GQHqbF3NK/index.html

                Also, you’re actually suggesting he was aligned with Russia from the beginning and that’s why he went there?

                No, I’m suggesting he doesn’t have principles.

                • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  …you just reposted the quote I gave you implying he doesn’t support that war and wishes he could actually say it more bluntly. And the first link I mostly read and found nothing like what you wrote about it being a “psyop”.

                  Fleeing life in prison or execution in a hurry doesn’t determine one’s principles. I find that a weird claim.

                  I will look at the other links but so far this has been…disappointing.

                  Snowden essentially sacrificed his freedom to show that the US government is spying on its citizens. If anything were to imply principles, that would be it.

                  • PugJesus@lemmy.worldM
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                    2 months ago

                    …you just reposted the quote I gave you implying he doesn’t support that war and wishes he could actually say it more bluntly.

                    No, I highlighted the part of your quote in which he implied that the war was not imminent and that anyone who ‘understands the conflict’ at a time when America was warning of the oncoming invasion, would understand that Russia had no desire to invade Ukraine as a means of resolution of the ongoing political dispute.

                    From one of my other links

                    “So… if nobody shows up for the invasion Biden scheduled for tomorrow morning at 3 a.m., I’m not saying your journalistic credibility was instrumentalized as part of one of those disinformation campaigns you like to write about, but you should at least consider the possibility,” the whistleblower said.

                    Fleeing life in prison or execution in a hurry doesn’t determine one’s principles. I find that a weird claim.

                    So if I expose, say, Britain’s wrongdoings in World War 2, and flee to Nazi Germany, do I have:

                    A. Principles

                    B. No Principles

                    Cowardice is not a principle.

                    Of course, that assumes a choice between two countries, as stated before, large swathes of the world don’t have extradition treaties with the US, yet he just happened to choose (with the help of Assange) the fascist state.

                    Very curious.

                    Snowden essentially sacrificed his freedom to show that the US government is spying on its citizens. If anything were to imply principles, that would be it.

                    “He did something I like, so he has principles”

                    He pissed off to a cushy position in Russia where he gets constant asspats from the terminally online while lending credibility to a fascist regime. Principles are not high on his list of priorities, quite apparently.