Forces had no direct confrontation with Hamas terrorists who killed hostages; ‘The IDF and security forces are doing everything possible to bring all hostages home as quickly as possible. This news shakes us all,’ says army spokesperson Hagari
Israeli forces discovered the bodies of six hostages in a 65-foot-deep tunnel in Rafah, approximately a kilometer from where hostage Farhan Alkadi was recently freed. The IDF had no precise intelligence on the hostages’ location in recent months but knew there were captives in the sector, leading to a gradual and cautious operation in Rafah since the ground offensive began.
What a terrible article. What is the source or evidence the hostages were executed? People are saying it’s a claim by the IDF but it’s not even attributed to them. From reading the article I have no idea who is making this claim or how it is supported. That’s not how journalism works.
So much angst about unreliable sources here, but we’re letting this fly?
Edit: Here is a better summary of the available source information. It is coming from the IDF, but they haven’t really said much other than it was obvious to them Hamas was the culprit. We’ll have to see what further information they release.
They were 65 feet down in a Hamas tunnel. What other evidence could you possibly need to know Hamas killed these hostages?
Do we have any source aside from the IDF?
Because already where they were supposedly found is based on what the IDF says. And we know that the IDF has been lying repeatedly throughout this war. We know that IDF soldiers have killed Israeli hostages before. We know about the Hannibal doctrin that dictates the IDF killing their own soldiers to prevent them from being captured alive. And the current political situation in Israel has become extremely critical of the IDFs failures to secure the hostages. So the IDF has an even greater incentive to downplay any possible responsibility.
Until we have the results of a comprehensive investigation by a non IDF party, there is a lot more evidence we need to know before forming a judgement.
We know Hamas and regular Gazans lie even more than the IDF.
Greater incentive? Hamas are terrorists. They follow zero international laws. Hamas has no incentive whatsoever to be honest. We know about their constantz irrefutable war crimes, every time they go out without uniforms (always), hiding among civilians (the more the better!), as if that’s not a bigger war crime than anything the IDF has been accused of, using entire cities as human shields.
You asked, what more evidence would be needed. I laid it out. In regards to “hiding among civillians” i would like to ask you, whether you will apply that same condemnation to IDF, whose Headquarters are in the center of TelAviv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaKirya
Are they hiding the IDF headquarters among civilians? No. Did they sneak in at night and build it under colleges and apartment buildings? No. Everyone knows right where it is. The people going in and out are uniformed soldiers, under color of a legitamate country.
This is a stunningly idiotic comparison. You weren’t serious, forgot the /s, right?
If you were Hamas, would you situate yourself in a building out in the middle of nowhere (where is that in Gaza?) With a sign on it saying Hamas lives here, please don’t bomb.?
So you acknowledge the fact that hamas uses human shields to protect its military assets?
Not sure about that. The Hamas health system seems to have been pretty accurate about casualty numbers so far and in the past (including when belatedly confirmed by the IDF). Whereas the IDF has been shown to lie quite a lot
Also: International Law? What does the ICJ have to say about that issue?
They’re simply no way to reasonably say that the IDF lies more than Hamas, or that Hamas is more credible than the IDF. The IDF is the professional military apparatus for whom every Israeli citizens serves, building roads, stopping suicide bombers from entering the country, and all sorts of useful things. It has government oversight by democratically elected civilians.
Hamas literally lies about everything and encourages a culture where hurling false accusations at the infidels is a fanatical duty, the more sensational the better. Qatari media will run the stories. Guardian will repeat them without scrutiny, and internet know nothings will do the rest. World’s respectable media: silent, as they won’t run stories based on TikTok memes.
Yeah, the Palestinian medical system keeps a pretty good account of dead bodies. That’s about the only thing it’s good for. They are accomplices to constant lies about how those bodies piled up and who they are. All of them are kids. None of them are fighters. All of them were sniped in the head or blown up by Israel bombs. None of them were stoned to death by fellow Gazans for implying that Gaza should hold an election. Not one!
The ICJ hasn’t ordered Israel to do anything Israel was not already doing. Read the orders yourself. At some point South Africa is going to have to prove up their reductive and self-cited claims in a courtroom and since their entire complaint is essentially based on Al Jazeera and Guardian articles that lack names, dates, or on the record sourcing, that’s going to be a heavy lift! Israel is going to bring receipts. And when they find they did fuck up, they will have a reciept for the court marshals and indictments. When is the last time a Gazan fighter faced a court marshal, never? How many Gazans in jail (in Gaza) for war crimes, none? Because they give you money in exchange for doing war crimes, in Gaza. Israel at least has some people in prison. The ICJ cited Israel’s continuing efforts to prosecute war criminals in its initial orders denying South Africa’s request for affirmative relief. Gaza has followed how many provisos of the ICJs orders? Zero.
Keep drinking that koolaid, brother
Stop drinking whatever it is you’re drinking dude…
When the IDF rescued the only 4 hostages they did, they killed 300+ mostly women and kids including some more of their own hostages.
So that’s why probably it was a no brainer for Hamas to indeed just execute them as soon as they figured they would be found, to save the lives of hundrends of innocents
Why would the IDF’s response be weaker if the hostages are dead?
We need clear good guys and bad guys, so if the IDF is the bad guys (which they certainly are) well that means Hamas must be the good guys (which they certainly are not) and thus this has to be some noble effort.
French people committed all sorts of terrorist acts against the nazis in the early days of WWII, were those french terrorists not the good guys in the conflict? If so, why wouldnt Hamas also be the good guys?
The terror attacks against jews in the levant started in the 1850s, as a protest against the tanzimat reforms which granted jews equal rights in the ottoman empire. Before the tanzimat reforms jews were legally second class citizens.
Ever hear the saying “Equality feels like oppression to the privileged?” The founding father and first president of palestine, Raj Amin Al-Husani, the person who signed the palestinian declaration of independence and the declaration of war against israel in 1948, was a member of the richest land owning family in plaestine and next in line to inherit the throne of jersulem, which was given to his family as a wedding gift by the profit Muhammid when the family’s head married the profit Muhammid’s daughter Fatima after the islamic conquest of jersulem.
“Raj” is a title. It means “prince”.
The tanzimat reforms were a direct result of the patriarch of the Al-Husani clan getting offended and killing a group of christian pilgrims for displaying non-islamic holy symbols in public in jerusalem, which angered the Pope so much he threatened the ottomens with a trade embargo from christian nations unless equal rights were granted to people of other faiths.
So says the IDF, anyway. I’ll believe it when someone independent confirms it.
It’s no mental stretch to believe idf would kill their own to further the genocide agenda.
What the actual fuck are you talking about. Hamas murders people all the fucking time, posting videos of their brutal murders etc. proudly online. IDF has no interest in killing hostages, it does not help them, it can only backfire.
These people are all kinds of dumb fucking idiots living in a fairy tale where Hamas are the poor oppressed good guys
I’m telling you that if, say, Canada came and occupied my home town, forced everyone out, and killed my family, that I’d definitely be an anti Canadian terrorist.
Addition: How is this being downvoted. Violence begets terrorists. Have we learned nothing from historical US intervention in the middle east? This is Israel’s “War on Terror” and its going to end the same way. Tons of dead brown people and many many more terrorists.
You would be a freedom fighter going for liberation though.
Hampshire is not attempting to liberate the Palestinian people.
That’s what you are failing to realize.
A person with no options is going to choose the better of two evils. Hamas wants to rule over them. Israel wants to wipe them off the map.
Its always the same people that advocate for harm reduction with our votes that say stuff like this.
The only option here is for one of the two side to be better, and I feel it’s incumbent on Israel as long as they are recieving our weapons.
That’s the only reason any of us care over here in the US, frankly, is that we are suddenly all morally culpable. In the hypothetical Candian invasion circumstance, I would absolutely side with “Not Canada” if given an option.
Can you name a single policy or decision over the last 20 years that Hamas has had that makes you believe they aren’t themselves attempting to get Palestine wiped off the map?
In my mind, if Hamas were themselves trying to rule, they would be making decisions for themselves and not doing what Iran tells them to.
Surely you have put two and two together already.
After all, if the hostages are already dead no need for a ceasefire.
with how happy the IDF has been with killing the hostage themselves so far, I have a hard time believing it. Could it have happened? Sure. Did it? Since the IDF says it did, it’s much more likely that it didn’t.
“Hamas could never do something like this. Kidnap and take hostages? Sure. But they would never cross this line. They are the good guys.”
Fuck off.
It doesn’t really make sense for them to destroy what little leverage they have like that.
Ahh, I see the problem now. You then that Hamas terrorists are sane and not religious extremist nut jobs.
These people might have been alive if we had a ceasefire. But no, Netanyahu’s political career is more important.
These people might have been alive if they had never been kidnapped by palestinians.
The hostages seem like the only bargaining chip they have (not that it’s much of a bargaining chip), so I’m surprised they’re doing it. Maybe they’ve decided that it isn’t worth it.
Probably frustration and despair. If your bargaining chip can’t get you a bargain, all they’re worth is ‘revenge’ against your opponent.
What a fucked situation.
Thinking on it, it was probably also costing them what are now valuable resources to keep them alive. When it’s near impossible to get in and out of Gaza, food, medicine, etc. are worth their weight in gold.
So instead of letting them free they murder them?
Why would they let them free when they consider them the enemy?
Because now they’ll be pursued for the rest of their life. Free a hostage and you have essentially a get out of jail free card.
There’s a genocide on buddy. They already were.
There wasn’t a “genocide” on Oct 6th.
absolutely love how tankies in here are somehow turning this around to be Israels fault
Apparently nowadays anybody who’s not a full blown Genocidal ethno-Fascist who approves when “their” people mass murder “human animal” children is a tankie.
It’s like how anything left of center used to be deemed Communism in America, with the main difference that this is the ethno-Fascist (the most far-right violent kind of ideology there is) version so anything less than strong approval of ethnic Genocide is deemed Tankie.
It is classic to label and insult people with no value to discuss the main topic at hand. Especially when you call their hypocrisy of response in supporting Ukraine self determination and fight against Russia and their genocidal, demonic, support of killing innocent children in Gaza.
says army spokesperson Hagari
99% chance that it’s either a complete fabrication or a distortion of the truth when an IDF spokesperson is the ONLY source. Let’s see if anyone even remotely reliable confirms the story.
While I agree with you that independent verification is mandatory in situations like this, I also believe that once you get that verification, your position will not change. You have only given yourself a 1% chance of changing your stance, which means, in my opinion, that the only refuge you are offering yourself is conspiracism if and when you are proven wrong.
I suspect the conspiracy will be “Israel killed the hostages themselves.”
once you get that verification, your position will not change.
False.
You have only given yourself a 1% chance of changing your stance
No. I have given a very generous 1% chance of something said ONLY by an IDF spokesperson being the unvarnished truth. The concurrence of other sources would of course dramatically increase that chance, especially if any of them are themselves very reliable.
in my opinion, that the only refuge you are offering yourself is conspiracism if and when you are proven wrong.
That’s a very weird way to guess wrong.
I suspect the conspiracy will be “Israel killed the hostages themselves”
Wouldn’t be the first time or the last. That’s not a conspiracy theory at this point, though, just what’s most likely given the past behavior of all of the factions involved 🤷
I’m reserving final judgment until people of greater reliability than the likes of Donald Trump, Baghdad Bob, or Alex Jones chime in, though.
You don’t see how automatically trusting the captors until proven otherwise is already evidence of how much you have embraced conspiricism?
I’m not saying that I trust Hamas. For the record, I don’t.
I’m just saying that I don’t trust the IDF either, infamous as they are for being caught lying constantly.
Right, but you know hamas believes jews should be wiped from this earth, and you know this current war began because of specific steps Hamas chose to take to attempt to make that goal a reality, you know the mistreatment they have displayed towards the hostages.
So for you to say that there is a 99% chance that Hamas is innocent of these killings, that’s a specific choice you are making for conspiricism.
Right, but you know hamas believes jews should be wiped from this earth,
That’s irrelevant. They’re not in a position where doing so is possible, and killing their only leverage against a technologically and numerically superior force is not in their interest.
The Israeli people thinking that they did, on the other hand, is VERY much in the interest of the IDF.
you know this current war began because of specific steps Hamas chose to take to attempt to make that goal a reality
Nope. Atrocious and barbaric beyond description as it was, October 7th was a political act, not a foolhardy attempt to kill all Jewish people.
Just because they’re despicable terrorists doesn’t mean that Hamas are stupid enough to think that the total eradication of all Israeli Jews, let alone all Jews worldwide, is something that is in any way possible.
And it’s not a war. It’s one of the biggest, most powerful, and most technologically advanced militaries in the history of humanity eradicating or displacing an entire people, using a tiny minority (that is nowhere near as much a threat as they pretend) as a pretense.
you know the mistreatment they have displayed towards the hostages.
Talking about Hamas or Israel? Because the only significant differences with regards to hostages is that Israel has hundreds if not thousands as many that they abuse just as horribly as Hamas does theirs.
So for you to say that there is a 99% chance that Hamas is innocent of these killings
Again ignoring the qualifier, so I’m gonna make it a little more obvious:
As long as an IDF spokesperson is the ONLY source
that’s a specific choice you are making for conspiricism.
Nope, that’s a statement of how unreliable the IDF and their spokespeople have proven themselves to be. Repeatedly leaving out that part, though? THAT’S a specific choice.
Islam prophet died and the only possession he had was a shield owned by his jew neighbour.
Any person of faith, including hamas, dont believe in “Jewish genocide” it goes against the religion.
I have a question, since Israel has mandatory military service, aren’t these hostages technically non-combatants?
Also when Israel uses the logic that everyone in palestine could be Hamas therefore they must be firm in their actions.
Doesn’t the opposite logic also apply?
Like technically every israeli would be either going to be a part of IDF or has been in the past or currently in IDF.
Right? What am i missing in this?
You are right. But it is still within the gray zone. For example if north korea assume all south korean are militant it would be disaster.
There are also other issue. Living across a wall separating Palestinian while living in colonizing state on land built on top of Palestinian villages fully knowing about incident where IDF bombed or shot many innocent people is questionable in my opinion.
I believe people who live in these area as second class to the zionist regime. They either :1) want to help Palestinians, 2) poor, 3) sadist zionist enjoying the misery of others. I also think the zionist don’t care about these people, important people would be in the main cities or in other countries enjoying the benefits with no risk to their live. And that is why we see Hannibal directive and no attempt to negotiate their release.
Sickening…
