I said it has open borders which is factually true. Also, last summer they paid their conscripts in Moscow 22k$ for a contract. Regarding “human rights”, well, lets try to count human rights. We don’t have the right to criticise our government and we don’t have the right to leave the country. Russians don’t have the right to criticize their government but they do have the right to leave the country. They also pretty much free to walk their cities and participate in whatever activities present there unlike our conscription-aged men who are only really allowed to participate in war.
they paid their conscripts in Moscow 22k$ for a contract
This one broke my heart a little bit. I’ve seen some of these guys dying on video, in a cold puddle, bleeding out and gasping.
They also pretty much free to walk their cities and participate in whatever activities present there unlike our conscription-aged men who are only really allowed to participate in war.
Yeah, I’m sure you’re posting from Kyiv. You sound exactly like Ukrainians I know in person and on social media. They all talk exactly like you, and every so often they bring up what the bonus amount is for people signing up for armed forces in Moscow. It’s uncanny.
Maybe those people are there to create a picture for you. Now that USAID and similar projects are stopping, we might see less of those.
every so often they bring up what the bonus amount is for people signing up for armed forces in Moscow
You all look at this literally as battle of good vs evil, the reality: ukraine beats, kidnaps and tortures people to send them to meat grinder, while russia stopped forced conscription and pays 22k$ to motivate their conscripts. The propaganda image of ukraine as good or democratic is absurd. It’s just a meat shield of west at best, and it rapidly becomes more and more inefficient.
If you want to check current ukrainian inside discourse, watch independent ukrainian bloggers, a few for a start:
Maybe those people are there to create a picture for you
Or, maybe you’re there to create a picture for me. I didn’t say it, you did.
I know the Ukrainian woman whose son was a client of mine for a while would have some pretty harsh words for you. I knew her for a while, and one day said one thing in support for the war, and it was like this outpouring came out of her of appreciation for it and support for Ukraine.
I don’t really know the Ukrainian guy in my gaming group well enough to know where he stands on the war. We’ve talked about it, just a small amount. He definitely didn’t say he was afraid of being tortured by the Ukrainian government, I’ll say that.
Before the war, I actually kind of liked the Russian people I knew, on a personal level. I still do, I guess, although unrelated events have meant we don’t really see each other now. Their mentality is pretty similar to mine, weirdly enough.
You’re saying all this shit to me about USAID creating a picture for me, when you have no idea how I form my pictures. You conveniently excised the other part that came before “and on social media,” which I had put there for a very specific reason.
You all look at this literally as battle of good vs evil, the reality: ukraine beats, kidnaps and tortures people to send them to meat grinder, while russia stopped forced conscription and pays 22k$ to motivate their conscripts.
Man, get the fuck out. I didn’t say “evil,” the people whose country is being invaded said that. Sounds pretty right to me.
You sure are trying hard to talk up Russia, for someone who lives in Kyiv. Keep saying bullshit. I welcome it, let’s talk.
Women and ukrainians who live outside of Ukraine, especially those who left before May 2024, have a very different mental image of Ukraine. For me the main turning point is the scale of unlawful forced conscription really. Simple as that. I stopped paying taxes, stopped donating, and stopped mentally supporting Ukraine. I just care for borders to open at this point. Both Ukraine and Russia are hopeless corrupt evil dictatorships to me.
Sounds like you should get the fuck out. People are dying to keep your apartment building safe, and you’re there trashing them because they’re short of people, while you’re not helping them.
Maybe when your savings run out you could go for that $22k. It sounds like that’s really important to you. You keep bringing it up.
I do like that you’ve abandoned the effort to paint Russia as some improvement in individual human rights, and just gone with the “they’re both hopeless corrupt evil” brand of cynicism. That’s definitely going to be more believable than "Russia is better, I’m only here because I can’t leave."
You’re rather naive if you think you won’t get conscripted into the russian army the moment Kyiv gets occupied. Though, with this kind of thinking, I’m sure they’ll welcome you.
Edit: for what it’s worth, I’m also one of those conscription-age men living in Kyiv trying my best to not get drafted. That doesn’t mean thinking I won’t have to fear for my life and freedom under russian occupation. The only real way for me and you to regain our safety is for Ukraine to win the war. And the least we can do for that is to stop pretending russian government has any sort of moral advantage
It’s impossible and it was obvious to anyone who bothered to check basic arithmetic from the very beginning. My best hope is for some kind of ceasefire, elections, peace deal, which all give some little chance that maybe mobilization will stop and borders will open.
you won’t get conscripted into the russian army the moment Kyiv gets occupied
And sent where, to Baltic or Poland? Okay, I’ll proceed to give up to NATO soldiers immediately.
And the least we can do for that is to stop pretending russian government has any sort of moral advantage
It’s not that they’re nice, it’s just that ukrainian government turned country into a worse dictatorship than russia is, and it really uncovered some truths about democracies, media, how european are ukrainian values and how helpful UN is, and many other things.
So why don’t you go get conscripted and give up to russian soldiers? If Ukraine is a worse dictatorship, surely that will be a step up.
Just one “step up” from ukrainian levels of shittiness isn’t enough. This is too unsafe compared to giving up to EU. Russians will definitely want to trade you to some of their captured people even if you don’t want to go back. EU will most likely not trade you back if you ask them.
I’m still kinda sorta willing to give you benefit of the doubt because we’re all scared shitless for our lives every night, hearing air raid alert sirens. But your replies to OP start resembling russian propaganda rulebook more and more. If this war was following “basic arithmetic”, we would be part of russia for the past 3 years.
A brief ceasefire, allowing you to get to EU, will not be enough to guarantee your safety. Given opportunity, putin will regroup, get more support from his allies and continue the war past Ukraine. I respect not willing to be sent to the battlefield against your will - but, unless we somehow get enough help to push russia back, this will happen sooner or later regardless.
Wait until the Russian army rolls over your city. Then it’ll be really hard to leave. What are you supposed to do, cross the battlefields?
Since it’s Kyiv it would mean it’s finally over I guess. Russia has open borders so if we eventually end up in Russia we can just leave.
“russia has open borders” uh huh, as well as democracy, free speech and human rights, yep
I said it has open borders which is factually true. Also, last summer they paid their conscripts in Moscow 22k$ for a contract. Regarding “human rights”, well, lets try to count human rights. We don’t have the right to criticise our government and we don’t have the right to leave the country. Russians don’t have the right to criticize their government but they do have the right to leave the country. They also pretty much free to walk their cities and participate in whatever activities present there unlike our conscription-aged men who are only really allowed to participate in war.
This one broke my heart a little bit. I’ve seen some of these guys dying on video, in a cold puddle, bleeding out and gasping.
Yeah, I’m sure you’re posting from Kyiv. You sound exactly like Ukrainians I know in person and on social media. They all talk exactly like you, and every so often they bring up what the bonus amount is for people signing up for armed forces in Moscow. It’s uncanny.
Edit: Typo
Maybe those people are there to create a picture for you. Now that USAID and similar projects are stopping, we might see less of those.
You all look at this literally as battle of good vs evil, the reality: ukraine beats, kidnaps and tortures people to send them to meat grinder, while russia stopped forced conscription and pays 22k$ to motivate their conscripts. The propaganda image of ukraine as good or democratic is absurd. It’s just a meat shield of west at best, and it rapidly becomes more and more inefficient.
If you want to check current ukrainian inside discourse, watch independent ukrainian bloggers, a few for a start:
Or, maybe you’re there to create a picture for me. I didn’t say it, you did.
I know the Ukrainian woman whose son was a client of mine for a while would have some pretty harsh words for you. I knew her for a while, and one day said one thing in support for the war, and it was like this outpouring came out of her of appreciation for it and support for Ukraine.
I don’t really know the Ukrainian guy in my gaming group well enough to know where he stands on the war. We’ve talked about it, just a small amount. He definitely didn’t say he was afraid of being tortured by the Ukrainian government, I’ll say that.
Before the war, I actually kind of liked the Russian people I knew, on a personal level. I still do, I guess, although unrelated events have meant we don’t really see each other now. Their mentality is pretty similar to mine, weirdly enough.
You’re saying all this shit to me about USAID creating a picture for me, when you have no idea how I form my pictures. You conveniently excised the other part that came before “and on social media,” which I had put there for a very specific reason.
Man, get the fuck out. I didn’t say “evil,” the people whose country is being invaded said that. Sounds pretty right to me.
You sure are trying hard to talk up Russia, for someone who lives in Kyiv. Keep saying bullshit. I welcome it, let’s talk.
Women and ukrainians who live outside of Ukraine, especially those who left before May 2024, have a very different mental image of Ukraine. For me the main turning point is the scale of unlawful forced conscription really. Simple as that. I stopped paying taxes, stopped donating, and stopped mentally supporting Ukraine. I just care for borders to open at this point. Both Ukraine and Russia are hopeless corrupt evil dictatorships to me.
Sounds like you should get the fuck out. People are dying to keep your apartment building safe, and you’re there trashing them because they’re short of people, while you’re not helping them.
Maybe when your savings run out you could go for that $22k. It sounds like that’s really important to you. You keep bringing it up.
I do like that you’ve abandoned the effort to paint Russia as some improvement in individual human rights, and just gone with the “they’re both hopeless corrupt evil” brand of cynicism. That’s definitely going to be more believable than "Russia is better, I’m only here because I can’t leave."
You’re rather naive if you think you won’t get conscripted into the russian army the moment Kyiv gets occupied. Though, with this kind of thinking, I’m sure they’ll welcome you.
Edit: for what it’s worth, I’m also one of those conscription-age men living in Kyiv trying my best to not get drafted. That doesn’t mean thinking I won’t have to fear for my life and freedom under russian occupation. The only real way for me and you to regain our safety is for Ukraine to win the war. And the least we can do for that is to stop pretending russian government has any sort of moral advantage
It’s impossible and it was obvious to anyone who bothered to check basic arithmetic from the very beginning. My best hope is for some kind of ceasefire, elections, peace deal, which all give some little chance that maybe mobilization will stop and borders will open.
And sent where, to Baltic or Poland? Okay, I’ll proceed to give up to NATO soldiers immediately.
It’s not that they’re nice, it’s just that ukrainian government turned country into a worse dictatorship than russia is, and it really uncovered some truths about democracies, media, how european are ukrainian values and how helpful UN is, and many other things.
So why don’t you go get conscripted and give up to russian soldiers? If Ukraine is a worse dictatorship, surely that will be a step up.
Oh wait, you actually are talking out of your ass.
Just one “step up” from ukrainian levels of shittiness isn’t enough. This is too unsafe compared to giving up to EU. Russians will definitely want to trade you to some of their captured people even if you don’t want to go back. EU will most likely not trade you back if you ask them.
I’m still kinda sorta willing to give you benefit of the doubt because we’re all scared shitless for our lives every night, hearing air raid alert sirens. But your replies to OP start resembling russian propaganda rulebook more and more. If this war was following “basic arithmetic”, we would be part of russia for the past 3 years.
A brief ceasefire, allowing you to get to EU, will not be enough to guarantee your safety. Given opportunity, putin will regroup, get more support from his allies and continue the war past Ukraine. I respect not willing to be sent to the battlefield against your will - but, unless we somehow get enough help to push russia back, this will happen sooner or later regardless.