Wheaties [she/her]

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Joined 4 years ago
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Cake day: November 2nd, 2020













  • Didn’t mean to imply that unpredictability is necessary for a mind, just that minds seem to have different/more physical components than computation.

    I suspect that consciousness is a combination of structures within nerve cells and the electrical/chemical signaling between them. One of the consequences of the anesthetics research has been using ultrasound devices to induce more microtubual formation within cells, basically just to see what happens. One guy wound up laughing uncontrollably for a few minuets.


  • Now there is the interesting question!

    Yes, organic chemicals can produce a mind. Yes, they are determined by physical properties. What sets you and me and the dog apart from computers is which physical properties are in play.

    Computer engineers use reliable physical properties to make predictable, deterministic logic gates. Doesn’t matter what programme you run (or, inversely, which computer you run the programme on) the gates always behave predictably. Make them too small, though, and quantum effects overtake the predictable properties. The machine stops being predictably deterministic and cannot function as a computer.

    We don’t know how minds come about. Programmer types like to say it’s the interaction between neurons – that each cell behaves like a logic gate in a computer. That is pure conjecture. They want that to be the case.† And… reality doesn’t quite line up with that story. Anesthetics points to a deeper level of physical phenomena.

    When a patient goes into surgery, it’s not ideal for them to be conscious during it. So we switch that off, with some good ol’ anesthetics! And I do mean “switched off” – anesthetized patients don’t even dream. How does it happen? For the longest time, nobody was sure. An anesthesiologist and some researchers decided to look into it. What they found is that anesthetics blocks the formation of these little structures inside cells, called microtubuals.

    From what I (mis)understand, quantum physicists find microtubuals really interesting. Something to do with radial symmetry and interactions between the molecules that make up the tube? I don’t understand quantum. The point is, whatever explanation for consciousness we find, it looks like it’s gonna include some quantum-chemical properties that don’t gel well with computable mathematics. Which shouldn’t be all too surprising. Even photosynthesis depends on quantum phenomena to get the electromagnetic radiation into the cell.

    __


    It makes their tables of variables strung up to other tables of variables seem like boundary-pushing research into the depths of consciousness itself – as opposed to just a calculation heavy, brute-force approach to problem solving.


  • But if you think it is just a scam, gimmick, grift, etc I don’t need to hear from you right now

    Too bad! :garf-troll:

    I don’t think computers can have a mind. It’s a maths machine. Mechanically following a predetermined set of instructions, toggling switches as its rule-set requires. Everything else is abstraction. Desktops and programmes and widgets and websites are just patterns in the switches that people have agreed to peg meaning onto. Circuits and switches can no more hold a mind than the pulp and ink of a book.

    The existential threat of “AI” is our leaders, both public and private, turning over decision making to what is essentially a complicated, yet brainless, abacus.