Bro, whats with this 4 month necro with a response that has almost nothing to do with what I said?

Fruit does not belong on a non dessert Pizza, and unless you are a horticulturalist or other form of plant scientist, a tomato is not a fruit (Do you put tomatoes in fruit salad?)

Here’s a summation from another dutch poster @ClamDrinker@lemmy.world a while back:

I’m sorry, but this is just really kind of disingenuous to start something like this next to a topic such as this. Your experience with one company or something is purely anecdotal and the controversy around Zwarte Piet is also very nuanced to this very day. The kind of nuance someone not from here will not get from a casual google search. For anyone that cares about actually understanding, here’s a rundown:

Many people attributed Zwarte Piet as a fun and good role model for kids, not some kind of caricature clown to laugh at. Literally almost everyone grew up knowing and having a fond enjoyment of Zwarte Piet, like a childhood imaginary friend that always showed up when you needed a smile the most. And that creates a strong desire to set that positivity forth by continuing the tradition. It takes really good reasons to destroy something most people attribute to be part of the greater good of their lives.

We try to understand racism, and strive to effectively reduce it rather than just mindlessly treat symptoms. Many people saw the existence of Zwarte Piet as a way to instill positive experiences to kids who might be isolated from having positive experiences with actual people of color. We know that in part racism comes about from not having enough (or too many bad) real world experiences with people of different skin colors. It is a type of fear of the unknown. As such, this still seems like solid reasoning. (Fun note, rats will also not help other stranger rats with a different fur color to escape even with no direct harm to themselves except when they have already lived alongside aside a rat with that fur color)

Even people of color were not completely on one side, but for the ones that it hurt, it hurt loudly. Black people in the Caribbean (Also part of the Netherlands) still use Zwarte Piet to this day, because they do not care - They do not see the racism in it. Unfortunately there seems to be a correlation between being affected by racism and seeing the racism in Zwarte Piet, as many of us learned as the conversation marched on. And racists definitely did wield Zwarte Piet to make their racism be known. In a world without racism, Zwarte Piet would not be controversial. And many people were not acutely aware of the racism some people of color faced.

The majority has wanted to get rid of it (since about 2018, actually), and most places have more accepted solutions in place now. But this does not mean that many people agree because we think Zwarte Piet is actually inherently racist. It’s because we’ve heard the concerns of people of color and weighed their burden to be more important to relieve than the perceived benefit of tradition and instilling a positive message on people that look different from yourself. It also didn’t help that the vast majority of people that still wanted to overrule those concerns were pretty obviously racist, which pushed even more people over the edge, because we don’t want to hold traditions in place that shield racists and bigots. Some countries could really learn from that.

Yeah, dont. I just did and its rough. I mean I guess if you watch pimple popping videos you’ll be fine, but bleeeeggghhhhhh

Cool, union busting is unfortunately one of my own battle lines, so hopefully this means I wont have to avoid Starbucks for long! (Because yeah, I guess I am avoiding them now)

Ideologically thats nice, real world logistically, it was nice being able to easily track down a liquid snack on my normal commute to work, a timeslot which usually doesnt give much room for investigation and testing

and further, it being a chain meant if my commute ever changed or I wasnt in the area for whatever reason, I could still hit up another location easily and get the same treat

Damnit, they’re Union Busters? Fuck man, there goes my adult sugar drinks D=

Yeah, I was giving the dude (non gendered) a bit of leeway with that xD

Since its become incredibly clear you’re arguing in bad faith, I have just two things to counter before I block you

“If that seems insane to you then please deeply consider how you came to value Muslim lives so much lower than a Ukrainian.”

YOU are the one who’s trying to downplay the Uyghur genocide, so don’t play the “you dont care about muslim lives” card. Most Muslim people I have talked to despise China because of this.

"Please consider that you are (probably) in the US or at least “the west” and how your criticism of China’s LGBTQ policies actually help those people. " Not once have I said I’m trying to make the lives of Chinese Gay People easier, I’m saying I care about Gay people in GENERAL and that China isnt a great country to idolize and defend if your side says they care about Gay people, I notice you STILL havent addressed that point and once again troed to spin it to something sinophobic adjacent.

It’s been fun! I wont be addressing anything further!

Who’s denying the Palestinian Genocide?

Also I didnt respond to your question because yeah? I dont like Saudi’s ISIS or the Taliban either? Still doesnt mean that it doesnt take some gymnastics to blame the imperialists for causing the current government Iran has while ignoring that anti-imperialists are listing said government as a supported ally.

“currently freaking their neighbors out the most right and the US freaks out nations in other continents. See, Iraq, Vietnam, all of south america.”

and if you are from one of those nations, I can understand why you might prefer China to the States (Although at least one of those is probably equally wary of China),but to prefer Russia in power over the States is jist blind insanity at this point

“As well as openly assasinates citizens of other countries IN said countries? The US does this all over the world at an industrial scale. Are you really unaware of the extent of the drone program?”

There was a reason I said openly. The States’ secret agencies probably do a lot of political assassinations, but they absolutely dont openly and undeniably assasinate other countries citizens that they arent at war with like Russia does with its tea poisoned with a nuclear isotope only Russia makes

“China’s track record with LGBTQ rights, I’m sure stoking sinophobia will help them.”

So theres nothing bigotted about criticizing the US, but any legitimate fingers pointed at China is Sinophobia? Nice diversion from China not being a great country to idolize if you care about gay people tho!

And back to you, who in that critically support category is currently freaking their neighbors out the most because they’ve made it clear they want to reclaim their old glory and old country (aka imperial) borders? As well as openly assasinates citizens of other countries IN said countries? And sure, lets go a step above where it says you fully align with their values, China’s track record with LGBTQ rights, while not the worst comparitably, isn’t particularly great, and when it comes to how they treat minorities the Uyghur people would like a word and so would the falun gong.

At least with Republicans in the US, they are open about hating gay people and minorities, yet the Prole Wiki pretends like it gives a shit.

Those revolutions and their leaders are the exact opposite of who I want or am willing to give power to, and if you think they are the path forward to a better future you are a dangerous fool

My point is look at the list of highlighted allies, and if your set of values is similar to theirs, maybe rethink whether or not you are an ally of lgbtq people or even treating people with decency. If you guys critically support Russia and Iran, maybe we critically support the West?

Which is funny because Anti colonialists have an entire wiki describing that they “critically support” modern Iran

And yet Tankies still “critically support” modern Iran

Edit: Lmao, Tankies dont like it when you provide documented (by their own side) proof that they’re in love with fascist governments

Lmao username checks out I guess

And those of you focussing on whether or not covid was an excuse/lie are on the extreme other end of the isle when the details of whether or not he lied about Covid make absolutely ZERO difference on the current situation. People in power lie, holy shit, life shattering revelation there!

I think the better question is: Why does it MATTER if it was a lie or not? Who exactly got harmed if Biden needed an excuse to back out to save his own ego? Whether Biden actually had Covid or not changes almost nothing

Thier favourite flavour is Red, but they’ll take any Polish they can get

Hell yeah brother!