Idk it’s not really a hint, that’s pretty direct. If I were her I’d assume I got rejected.

This sort of thing happens all the time, good intentions getting twisted over time.

Iirc the reason you’re not allowed to depict Muhammad, for example, was because Muhammad didn’t want pictures of to be used to worship him. He didn’t want to be deified basically.

Cut to today and his followers will literally kill anyone that even tries, even those outside of the religion, due to their worship of Muhammad, something that he clearly never would have wanted. It literally goes against the reason he had the rule in the first place.

Scissor me timbers

I’m confused, are you talking about literal depression or just feeling generally sad/down?

I’m diagnosed with depression, have been since I was a teenager, but I don’t know many others that are.

Basically just focus on staying present and not letting yourself get carried away by your internal monologue. It’s infinitely harder than it sounds. You can close your eyes, focus on a specific spot in a room, focus on your breathing, anything to keep yourself present and focused. Keep your mind empty as best you can.

The best advice I ever got was, when you have an intrusive thought during meditation, to acknowledge it, and let it fade away. Don’t focus on it or criticize yourself for it, as that will usually only make it harder to refocus yourself.

Meditation is super helpful for a lot of reasons, but for me personally it helped a lot with negative thinking and mental traps (like catastrophizing and stuff). It helps you to be more aware of when you’re getting carried away by thoughts, and how to push them aside and be present.

Look into mindfulness if you’re interested, it’s helped me a lot.

Nah that was just a dream, remember?

it would be overly simplistic to claim direct causation

Considering one simply wouldn’t have happened without the other, I have to disagree. I agree that maybe these people may have a predisposition to radicalization, but the fact remains that said predisposition was only exploited because of the events prior.

Bigotry, in some ways sadly, isn’t something that one is born with. It’s something that people develop, whether it’s from their parents, environment, or they’re radicalized over time as they explore toxic rabbit holes online. Whatever the case, these people at one point were just like anyone else. I’ve seen it happen to genuine, loving, progressive people firsthand. It’s tragic.

So, at least the way I see it, a family member learning that someone close to them has come out, being ignorant of it and looking into it online, and then finding themselves in radical spaces, isn’t an outlandish idea. I’d wager that a lot of radicals probably began their descent from an innocent enough place, only to get deeper and deeper until it was far too late.

And of course! Regardless of any of this, I genuinely wish you all the best.

Huh? Maybe I’m misunderstanding your comment, but I’m not blaming the people who criticize cults. Lol I’m one of those people, fuck cults. Maga in particular.

And as for your example, it’s hard to make a cause and effect argument when the cause is something that didn’t happen.

A better example would be if someone told someone else that the earth is round, so that second person decided to look into it. Through that, they stumbled upon the flat earth theory, and eventually got sucked into it.

In that example, the person only became a flat earther because the other person told them the world is round. Is that the second person’s fault? Are they to blame? Absolutely not, they were just stating a fact. But the reality is that that event led this other person into becoming a flat earther. That’s just what happened.

And genuinely I’m sorry, I hope your family, if you decide to come out, accepts and loves you for you. I’ve sadly known quite a few people who have had to deal with fallout from that, especially those living in more southern states. It’s heartbreaking. I’ve also known people whose family’s love them to death and barely bat an eye. So whatever you choose, choose what you need, what makes you happiest, whatever that may be.

And in case my point wasn’t clear, or it sounds like I’m saying something else, let me be clearer: It is absolutely not their fault. Not in the slightest. Their family’s toxic bs is their family’s alone, it’s not their burden to bare.

I’m not excusing anything, I’m saying that in reality events lead to other events. This is just how things work, it isn’t an opinion or a slight, it’s objective fact.

Anyways, please reread the end of my last comment to you. I really can’t spell out any clearer that the victim is in no way to blame.

Are you high? You didn’t post this, and you’re the one who replied to me first.

I’ve literally said multiple times that nobody is to blame, I’m genuinely starting to think you’re trolling or just looking to get into an argument for some reason. I’ve probably said that nobody should feel any guilt whatsoever, that they did nothing wrong, at least three separate times now.

So you were making a point that had zero to do with my comment?

My comment was about how events inherently lead to other events. But that it doesn’t mean that anyone is to blame.

I can’t tell if you’re purposefully being obtuse or genuinely don’t understand what my comment was saying, or what my reply to yours implied.

I agree, but I don’t think OP is an idiot, imo it’s a totally valid response to have. I mean think of all the people that have come out, had their families lose their minds, and then be directly blamed for it.

Seeing a title like this and assuming that it’s assigning blame, even when its Vivian herself just stating the chain of events, is understandable when this is such a problem in the community.

I agree that it should’ve been stated in the article, I’m not apologizing for them not doing so. I’m just reiterating what his daughter’s perception is, and that the reality of that isn’t “wrong”, as it’s entirely possible that his descent, if it was a descent, happened as a result.

Once again, this is literally how she saw things play out. That’s all the information we have, anything else is speculation, including the notion that he was like, born a bigot. Unfortunately these toxic ideas aren’t born with people, they’re infected with them at some point. And like I’ve said, I’ve personally witnessed it happen to genuinely terrific people.

So unless we all plan on ignoring Vivian’s own words, I don’t think there’s much more that can be said. And regardless, none of this was my point anyway. My point was literally that the title of the article isn’t wrong, and that something being caused by another can be possible without anyone being at fault for it.

That’s entirely possible, but more than once I’ve seen genuinely great, kind-hearted people get sucked down toxic rabbit holes. Extremely liberal, open people getting slowly warped over time.

Hell, most of the time they don’t even realize it’s happening. I used the example in another comment, but it’s like someone indoctrinated into a cult. They didn’t exit the womb a cultist, this wasn’t always who they were. This happened to them at some point.

Saying that the husband wouldn’t have beaten her if they hadn’t gotten married is a fact tho.

That doesn’t make it her fault for marrying him, she’s not responsible for his abuse. But the fact that it’s happening due to previous events is simply how the world works.

What I’m saying is that one family members decision to embrace hatred and bigotry is not the fault or the responsibility of the family member who came out of the closet

Like I said, I completely agree with this. And,

The family member who decided and made the choice to become a hateful bigot did so of their own accord

while true, that chain of events was started when they, bravely, came out. It’s not their problem, nor should they feel any guilt whatsoever, as there’s nothing that they did wrong. But the fact is that the toxic path the family member went down only happened because of that coming out. Literally just cause and effect, it’s factually what happened.

That’s why I say that there’s a difference between someone being at fault for something, and someone unintentionally influencing another. The article simply states that she saw his radicalism start when she came out. Not that her coming out was somehow wrong. She’s literally just stating her truth. Her coming out started him on this path. And, that’s not her fault.

I think it’s more accurate to say that his reaction led him down toxic rabbit holes that warped his opinions and beliefs into what they are now.

Obviously we’ll never know, but I’ve personally known people who’ve genuinely changed as they got lost down various paths. Someone who’s indoctrinated into a cult, for example, obviously wasn’t indoctrinated as they came out of the womb. They weren’t always like that, it instead happened to them as some point.

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Someone being at fault for something, and someone unintentionally influencing another, are two separate things.

Family members going down toxic rabbit holes as a response to someone close to them coming out, is just that - a response to someone close to them coming out. It is quite literally cause and effect.

That doesn’t mean that the family member’s bigotry is the person’s problem though, nor should they feel any sense of blame whatsoever.

I think it’s more accurate to say it would’ve been a good deed. Rn it’s just good intentions.