• Frokke@lemmings.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    19
    arrow-down
    32
    ·
    6 months ago

    Huh. So those of us that have always advocated for a nuclear baseline with wind/solar topping off until we have adequate storage solutions are climate change deniers? That’s new.

    • Zagorath@aussie.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      32
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      6 months ago

      First, no, that’s not what I said. If you’re only going to be arguing in bad faith like that this will be the last time I engage with you.

      Second, baseload power is in fact a myth. And it becomes even worse when you consider the fact that nuclear doesn’t scale up and down in response to demand very well. In places with large amounts of rooftop solar and other distributed renewables, nuclear is especially bad, because you can’t just tell everyone who has their own generation to stop doing that, but you also don’t want to be generating more than is used.

      Third, even if you did consider it necessary to have baseload “until we have adequate storage”, the extremely long timelines it takes to get from today to using renewables in places that don’t already have it, spending money designing and building nuclear would just delay the building of that storage, and it would still end up coming online too late.

      I used to be a fan of nuclear. In 2010 I’d have said yeah, we should do it. But every time I’ve looked into it over the last 10 years especially, I’ve had to reckon with the simple fact that all the data tells us we shouldn’t be building nuclear; it’s just an inferior option to renewables.

      • Frokke@lemmings.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        29
        ·
        6 months ago

        Aaaw, someone doesn’t like the tone used? Well that’s unfortunate. How about you start with leaving dem bad faith arguments?

        Renewables will not cover your usage. Period. You will need something to cover what renewables won’t be able to deliver. Your options are limited. Nuclear is the only sustainable option for many places. Sure you got hydro (ecological disasters) or geothermal in some places, but most do not have those options.

        It’s not an XOR problem.

        • Renewables will not cover your usage.

          False. Multiple countries are already able to run on 100% renewables for prolonged periods of time. The bigger issue is what to do with excess power. Battery solutions can cover moments where renewables produce a bit less power.

          • cqst@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            6 months ago

            100% renew

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_renewable_electricity_production

            All the countries that manage 100% renewable power use high levels of hydropower. Which is not an option for many countries and has it’s own ecological problems associated with it.

            Also, these 100% renewable countries have very little electricity requirements.

            https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us-generation-capacity-and-sales.php

            The United States produces at least produces four million Gigawatt hours of electricity per year. Compare that to some of these “100% renewable” countries.

            • Sure, most countries that already made it use hydro. But Denmark is already up tp 80% without hydro, and the UK and Germany are already nearly halfway there without any meaningful hydro. And there’s still so much solar and wind that can still be installed. They’re nowhere near their maximum production capacity yet.

              100% from renewables is clearly feasible and achievable. Of course it takes time and investments, but nuclear energy will takre more time and investments to get going again.

            • Frokke@lemmings.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              6 months ago

              Oh noes, facts. The bane of all renewables evangelicals…

              Just wait till you have to tell them they’re looking at irrelevant data. Not only are they using specific usecases that are not applicable to a large majority of countries, but they’re also using data that doesn’t support the long term fossil fuel goals.

              Just wait till you tell them how much the electricity requirements will skyrocket once we’re transitioning to EV, dropping fossil fuel heating, cooking, cargo trucks switch to EV, etc etc.

          • Frokke@lemmings.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            15
            ·
            6 months ago

            In the summer. In ideal conditions. Lets talk again once you’ve tried 12 continuous months in the heavily populated northern hemisphere. 😉