• OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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    23 hours ago

    What??? We literally saw democracy play out. You can’t even use the excuse that he lost the popular vote, he won every type of democratic way we have.

    You know what wasn’t democracy? Installing candidates into primaries over democratically popular candidates. Hillary in 2016, Biden in 2020 and Kamala in 2024. In every single one of these primaries, they did everything they could to shut down anyone popular who showed any sign of having a backbone, even though they killed democracy as it happened.

    What we saw was a backlash to a stifling of democracy. Democracy won last night.

    • zik@lemmy.world
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      15 hours ago

      Trump has threatened to end democracy in the US. So yesterday may end up being the last time anyone in the US gets to vote.

      I wouldn’t call that a win for democracy.

      • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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        14 hours ago

        There is zero proof that he’ll be a dictator. My source is that he was president for 4 years and was not a dictator.

        The only thing you’re basing your claim on is an offhand joke he made about fully shutting down the borders on the first day, then opening them back up with better safeguards. If you watch the whole clip, you’ll understand that.

    • pingveno@lemmy.world
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      22 hours ago

      If you’re referencing Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020, he wasn’t “democratically popular” in either race. That simply is not supported by polling or election results. He was well behind Clinton by all metrics. Then in 2020, he was briefly “winning” because several similar candidates were splitting the center-left lane. The moment the center-left lane narrowed, Sanders’ lead evaporated.

      It’s SOP for candidates to more or less clear the field for an incumbent president. This is partially because of a perceived effect from a strong primary challenger weakening an incumbent. So Democrats were just doing what both parties have been doing for the last half century.

      The change from Biden was in response to clear reactions from the US electorate. The electorate saw Biden’s debate performance and was not impressed. There wasn’t time to run a process, so Kamala was the obvious choice given a non-ideal situation. But the electorate got what it wanted in terms of an option that wasn’t elderly.

        • Butterpaderp@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          Did you forgot the part where it came down to just bernie vs biden in 2020 and people overwhelmingly voted for biden?

          I like bernie too, but he wasn’t gonna get the pick

          Edit: I have angered the bernie bros

          • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            7 hours ago

            All these sources of intentional corruption against someone running to improve the lives of all Americans and not just a select few, and you just go “Hmm, but he was losing according to the media that lied to us, so he lost fair and square.”

            • Butterpaderp@lemmy.world
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              4 hours ago

              I see how many people didnt vote for him. How is the media lying about that?

              You could argue that media was against him, but the truth is that people in america just aren’t that progressive. I mean hell, look at how terrible the dem turnout was this year compared to last election.

              • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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                3 hours ago

                Democrats aren’t progressives. Maybe if they were, they wouldn’t lose all the time.

                • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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                  60 minutes ago

                  “If they just had my opinions (that are unpopular to the US population at large), they would win.”

          • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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            17 hours ago

            Except it wasn’t just him and Bernie. It was also Warren, so the progressive vote was spit, while the centrist vote was coordinated around Biden. Nice try though!

            • Butterpaderp@lemmy.world
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              16 hours ago

              Biden made more than bernie and warren combined in alot of states. If bernie was meant to be, more people would have voted for him, plain and simple.

                • Butterpaderp@lemmy.world
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                  12 hours ago

                  Bloomberg was a joke. Can blame it on everything you like, bernie was still never getting presidency in 2020. People picked Biden over him.

                  • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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                    3 hours ago

                    Oh, I get to blame it on anything I like? Really? Then I’m going to blame it on Democratic party that was actively working against Sanders, a coordinated effort to anoint Biden after he won South Carolina, the billionaire who only entered the race, and an actively hostile media, and a billionaire who spent his on money on anti-Bernie ads. There were more headwinds against Bernie in those primaries than there were against Hillary, Biden, and Kamala in the general. Pretending that it was just, 'people picked Biden," FFS.

      • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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        20 hours ago

        Bernie Sanders won 3 out of 5 primaries that occurred before the DNC called it for Biden in 2020 with Buttigeg picking up 1 other. In 2016 Sanders won 23 races and was at 43% of the popular vote despite extreme pushback by the DNC. He was democratically supported cause he had people voting for him. Democratically.

        And sure but with some of the worst polling numbers Biden, did not need to or should have thought he had incumbent advantage. Mud had a better approval rating.

        And the change was from that and a protest vote of 100,000 voters voting against Biden in a primary that had no other option that’s was being ignored until the rich donors realized the polling wasnt gonna get better after the debate proved he was not fit for office.

        There was time but the argument was made that it would be difficult and all the donations already made could be immediately given to Harris as she was already on the ticket, thus letting the money flow (which the DNC outspent Trump 2:1)

        They got what they wanted which was a younger centrist willing to do Biden-esque policy without question that they thought would be easy with identity politics and being “not Trump” which is viewed as the main issue and not what issues he represents as a fix for.
        Mostly being a willingness to change from status quo.

        Which is exactly what hasn’t been allowed in races as shown before.

        • pingveno@lemmy.world
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          20 hours ago

          Bernie Sanders won 3 out of 5 primaries that occurred before the DNC called it for Biden in 2020 with Buttigeg picking up 1 other.

          I’m not sure how to parse what you’re saying. As far as DNC rules are concerned, they “call” it once all primary races are held.

          In 2016 Sanders won 23 races and was at 43% of the popular vote despite extreme pushback by the DNC. He was democratically supported cause he had people voting for him. Democratically.

          The Democratic primary uses proportional representation, so candidates don’t win states, they win delegates. Hillary Clinton got 55% of the popular vote, Bernie Sanders got 43%. There are no two ways to slice it, Bernie lost that election by the rules of a democratic election by a sizeable margin. Meanwhile, Hillary was dealing with getting hacked and Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi. And you’re forgetting the often adoring coverage that was played to audiences on the left about Sanders.

          The selling point for Kamala wasn’t anything in particular about her. She’s the VP and was the only obvious choice. There was no appetite for a contested convention, which was the alternative. It was always going to be an uphill battle, so in a sense she’s also a sacrificial lamb.

          • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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            2 hours ago

            I’m not sure how to parse what you’re saying. As far as DNC rules are concerned, they “call” it once all primary races are held.

            I believe it means that you weren’t paying attention during the 2020 primaries or the news around them then. The DNC Does not wait and did not. Claiming Biden the Presumptive nominee 38 days (that number is from 2024, media declared him presumptive nominee in a period about 4 days longer in 2020 still faster than trump in 24) after the first delegate picked. Obama took 120 days. To give you an idea of how fast that was, faster than Trump’s nomination in 2020. (43 days)

            You are correct though. The primary eventually went the way it went. He lost it by the rules but there is a reason people don’t feel good about the rules presented and that needs to be dealt with.

            I would also just want to finish with the simple, how is pointing out how popular his rallies were be a negative to his electability while being an usurper to someone in social and legal discourse?

            • pingveno@lemmy.world
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              9 hours ago

              So based on your 38 days, that would be March 12th (2020-02-03 + 38 days), no? And Biden was indeed declared the winner on a March 12th, but that was in 2024. It took until April 8, 2020 for Bernie to decide to drop out.

              • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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                2 hours ago

                I think you are right. I am mixing up the 12th with 2024 however it was not until Bernie dropped out that everyone started calling Biden the winner.

                By March media was still calling Biden the nominee and you can find articles claiming Biden as the nominee by March 17th just with a quick Google search. Washington Post called it by March 15th in an article I can’t read from a paywall.

                After Biden won South Carolina (a single state) it was already being called as his win and by March 3rd most other candidates dropped and fell in line with Biden creating chaos in super Tuesday polling as voters were told their votes had been pointless.

                I agree with you that if you look Biden didn’t actually get the delegates needed to be the Nominee until June and that Bernie Sanders didn’t drop until the 8th of April and his campaign was struggling at that point.

                But that divide between what actually happened and how it’s recorded is part of my point.

                A large amount of effort was made to push people into a specific option and while it “worked” it does not mean it didn’t come with a cost of voter engagement.

      • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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        22 hours ago

        He wasn’t “democratically popular” because the Dems suppressed all support he had. All those news medias that have been hounding on trump being the worst thing since Hitler? Yeah, they used that same power to stifle anyone who had an iota of a chance to get votes

      • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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        19 hours ago

        I am not sure you remember but the media reaction to Bernie doing well initially was major outlets like CNN reacting with fear, loathing, and uncertainty. And it impacted rhe course of an election. You had anchors yelling about how Sanders will result in public executions in central park during the primary.