More dataisdepressing than dataisbeautiful
I sometimes think they turn conservative because women won’t date them.
I’m pretty sure women don’t want to date people who have any sort of disposition that leans towards hating them or believing that women are lesser than men.
Unfortunately, a lot of men learned that way of thinking early in life(from family and/or media) and it ruins any attempt at a relationship, then they blame women and run to the very people who set them up to fail for validation, or find new ones like that sex trafficker with the pizza boxes, or that canadian psychologist who sugar coats sexism online. Repeat ad nauseum.
In the age of social media I imagine people are actually a lot more antisocial than we used to be…. And if young men and young women are all online more now and actually go out to interact in person less than we used to, this would make it a lot more difficult for young men to interact with the young women long enough to ask them out….
Online is heavily skewed in women’s favor unfortunately. I had a female coworker that had 100+ matches on bumble and kept complaining how hard it was too keep track of. She wasn’t even very pretty and she had an empty pot for head. Meanwhile male coworkers really struggle. No surprise This will make some males bitter and lash out. Even if they do find a partner Worst part is if the social skills are bad it is a bad relationship. I hope we are not seeing a universe 25 style collapse.
I wasn’t specifically talking about online dating, but women are generally more desired by men than vice versa, whether online or in person.
I can’t imagine online dating to be useful than for more than a handful of people in my opinion.
I was more saying since we are all online more, we are all interacting in person a lot less, which allows for more organic interactions…
Yeah I agree. Wanting to Go back the good old days is what is causing this trend. Though Realistically all the social skills in the world won’t bag you the girl if you are average right now. I knew a few coworkers that wouldn’t even talk to a guy unless he was a 666 man. 6 figures, 6 feet, 6 pack. No surprise they are single. I wonder if their POV changed overtime, they were in early 20s at the time. I know my old roommate lowered her standards super hard over 30 to bag a husband.
Anecdotal evidence is not the same as actual data across populations
The Sample size is rather small from personal experience. I am curious if such data exists.
I can’t remember which app it was, but I tried online dating over a decade ago. I noticed I wasn’t getting very many responses to any messages I sent out, and it was basically after saying yes to everyone and I had spent some time on the app, so I got to the point where I just messaged everyone a generic opener….
I talked to my female roommate at the time and I got a couple generic photos of her, she was a young mid 20’s woman who was very pretty but idk average for a young beautiful woman.
I created a new profile for myself, and also a second profile for her, I let her choose the most attractive photos of me and I chose some dorky not very attractive but still cute I guess photos of her….
She had ten messages before we were even able to upload the first photo after just creating the account.
This doesn’t mean that she got messages from guys who were someone she would consider dating. It just means she got a lot of messages. I think guys don’t realize how many messages the women get. They have to wade through hundreds of “hi how are you doing” messages before they can even start a conversation. Whereas the guys have to send out messages that are unique and capture the attention of ladies to get a conversation started. Neither is ideal, it’s just how it is
That’s very true and likely why she felt so overwhelmed. No one is really winning. She would have had a really good match in there but drowned in a sea of options.
In this case we only left the app open for a couple hours that afternoon before we deleted it, but it’s just anecdotal evidence that show if we are specifically talking about online dating the problems are just as bad for either sex if we are talking about cis heteronormative relationships
A really sad point. Though I think drowning in option is better for self esteem than 0. If males had plenty I doubt we would see such a trend.
A few folks have mentioned that these charts
- conflate liberal/conservative with the dominant left/right parties in these nations
- does not include people who do not identify with one of those dominant parties
- have some somewhat unreliable stats magic behind them
A lot of young men in the US are reporting themselves as “not a Democrat or Republican”, and that’s causing a lot of this proportional shift. I would bet that characterizes a lot of folks on this site who are not conservative.
https://www.vox.com/politics/2024/3/13/24098780/politics-gender-divide-generation-z-youth-men-women
https://www.allendowney.com/blog/2024/01/28/is-the-ideology-gap-growing/
Those ‘unaffiliated’s are just embarrassed republicans. Just like most of the centrists you’ll run across.
Oh hell nah, I’m independent and I am definitely an embarassed left leaning voter
Is anyone brave enough to ask why?
Women are rightfully concerned about the loss of bodily autonomy. They don’t want to live in the handmaids tale.
I’m sure that is part of it but proposing that as the sole reason seems unnecessarily reductive.
When pregnancy and child birth are such a monumental part of a persons life, and the ability to choose whether or not to go through that process is taken away, it makes a lot of sense why this is the ‘sole reason’ for some women. As someone who very recently gave birth, everything else in the world and other political topics are dwarfed by the absolute earth-shattering life event that is bringing a child into this world. I think it is something that people who haven’t been through it themselves, or who are not empethetic can not wrap their heads around. But there is absolutely a reason why many women are voting liberal for abortion rights alone. That is the single freedom that contributes most directly to a womens adult life. While tax policies and national affairs have an impact on everyones day to day lives, reproductive rights have an acute impact on womens immediate futures.
Abortion is undoubtedly a big reason for shifting voting habits for a large number of women. However, it is only one piece of the puzzle when it comes to the way conservatives, particularly conservative men, treat and talk about women.
I know women who describe themselves as pro-life and yet have moved away from the Republican party due to the way they have handled various GOP leaders sex scandals, rape accusations, and general attitude towards women. They don’t want abortion rights restored and yet they are turning away from Republicans. That is why I say that viewing this shift in voting habits solely through the lens of reproductive rights is unnecessarily reductive. By doing so you are excluding women who are part of that shift from consideration both in this discussion and in the larger view of what women in America want their future to look like. Your experience, while not uncommon, is not universal and any discussion that frames a complex issue in such a way is missing part of the picture.
Do those same women think other women should die for a miscarriage like has happened twice now because of its connection to abortion. Or how about the lady face a life sentence in prison for a miscarriage. I think you’re utterly discounting the seriousness of all of that.
You’d have to ask the pro life women. All he is saying is that the issue most important to you and many other women is not the only issue affecting these trends.
That’s literally all the other poster is saying.
This is probably more of a symptom than a cause, but social media platforms pushing manosphere content isn’t helping.
I wasn’t paying attention for like 2 seconds and it went from “Men also have rights” to “Andrew Tate is a role model”, like WTF internet, stop ruining good things, fuck.
Shock value gets upvotes and downvotes.
There was a famous radical feminist from decades ago who argued all men should be killed. I don’t think she was relevant during twitter or in the recent internet… if she had been, idk 🤷♂️
I think the problem with some of these issues is that there are academic theories that are being discussed, which end up getting reduced by non academics and applied to specific individuals.
In the men’s rights forums it becomes men and boys are being left behind, this gets turned into pointing at a specific woman and blaming her.
Likewise in feminist ideology there is the idea of the patriarchy, this gets turned into some people pointing fingers at specific men and blaming them.
Andrew Tate blaming normal life issues on women and pushing teenagers to be very hateful against them is one big reason
If the issues young men had wherent real he wouldnt have the followers. We do account for 75% of suicides so Tate’s diagnosis is correct just his treatment is wrong.
75% of suicide deaths. the number of attempts is about the same
“Dont send a women to do a mans job” - Andrew Tate
If you can’t kill yourself properly, just find a real alpha man to do the job correctly? You don’t know jack about suicide. Here let me mansplain that for ya
- puts down Tylenol, grabs gun
Edited for clarity since this is very dark humor: “In other news tonight, the “smiling woman” was arrested today after apparently murdering her husband. She was contemplating suicide but made other choices. The video was live-streamed on tic tock. Coming at 6 tonight stay tuned to WTAF news”
Wait u thought i was being serious?
I hope not lol
Fascism is sociologically rooted in the sexual insecurity of men. That’s why it’s always men driving it.
Fascism is Capitalism in decline. Masculinity is a recognized part of fascism, but fascism is rooted in Capitalist decay, not in moral failures of men.
Masculinity by your argument is also rooted in the development of vaccines, all of the aspects of technological progress, and also all progressive social movements that have resulted in more equitable distribution of political power, ie voting rights act, giving women the vote, etc.
When I think of all the women & girls in my life that I care about, I remember that I could never be a conservative. It would be a betrayal.
Assuming this is accurate, I’m pleased to see men in the UK bucking the trend.
This is out of date.
People are losing faith rapidly in the left because they don’t seem to be for the everyday working class Briton like they used to be.
There is a big shift going to Reform now largely because they want to reduce immigration. The left deny the situation and the right have claimed they will reduce it every year then increase.
People are flooding to the “far right”* because they don’t seen the main parties address the main issue they want addressing and have been talking about for decades at this point, generations even.
_* not actually far right. But the left love throwing that term around to anyone that has a different opinion to them. They just want lower immigration, which historically has been a left leaning ideology
Look I don’t know how to tell you this but just because you live in a bubble doesn’t mean everybody else does.
That is not “a big shift in the UK towards reform”, don’t be daft. They only have 4 MPs only two of which ever bothered turning up, they are about as politically relevant as my underwear.
Also Reform absolutely are far right they are basically Nazis, albeit brainless lazy incompetent ones. You need to go outside and interact with normal members of the human race rather than whoever it is you’re talking to on the “I’m not racist but…” Facebook group
14% of the vote from a brand new party, with signs that’s increasing. It not insignificant
You’re taking data out of context. You can make it say anything when you do that.
Labour won with fewer votes than they got in the last election which they lost. That tells me that this was mostly a protest vote people weren’t voting for any particular party that were voting for not to the conservatives.
But in the 2025 election the conservatives won’t be in power and so there won’t be a protest vote against them. If reform do well in those elections that would be evidence of a shift until then the balance of probability is simply that they were the obvious processed vote for the right-wing inclined that did not want to vote for the conservatives.
You cannot draw any conclusions from the results of such a politically unstable period.
Additionally I’m not letting you off the hook for in any way trying to suggest that the reform party are in any way shape or form anything but a bunch of bigoted misogynists. How dare you suggest that they are simply a right-wing political party that the other parties are trying to lambast in an attempt to discredit them. They are far right extremists, stop trying to defend them.
The average person wants lower immigration plain and simple.
That’s what reform is largely winning votes on. Something that historically has been a left view.
They are no where near as bad as everyone makes out. People are trying to paint them as Nazis.
Nigel farage literally (as in he actually did this) posed in front of a poster that was styled on Nazi propaganda. The only people making them out to be Nazis are themselves, they are being Nazis and people are pointing it out, that’s not people defaming them, that’s people pointing out that they are being Nazis. People like you are allow the hard right thrive, the bigots and racists are allowed to exist because apologists like you make excuses for them.
Please be better. Or if you can’t be better at least stop spreading your uninformed opinions on the internet, no one needs to hear the opinions of a Nazi apologist.
https://images.app.goo.gl/pL7xhiTGuwQPxKaKA
Here is a link in case you might want to possibly educate yourself. I recommended it because currently you sound like a tit.
Wow being against uncontrolled immigration is so Nazi.
Literally no other person could think immigration should go down for any reason or any amount without being a Nazi.
I’m really glad you showed me a photo of someone concerned with immigration when it’s the number one issue in the country. Really proved that, that guy is a Nazi.
I do think he’s a dickhead. But Nazis and reform are different.
As women gain independence, frightened men turn to patriarchal solutions. Hence a turd like JD Vance spouting hateful and controlling rhetoric on podcasts and Ahole Tate brainwashing adolescent boys. Fuck these people.
Young men and young women haven’t been around long enough to have seen anything change like your suggesting. If that were the case it would be older women and men who are changing
The opposite to conservative is progressive, not liberal
The opposite is Socialism, not progressivism.
Okay boomer
I believe that a significant factor for this can be attributed to mental development and maturity of boys lagging behind that of girls of the same age, during formative years. And, please read on, if you assume my argument is “boys dumb, conservatives dumb. Q.E.D.”
The second factor is an education system where this offset in mental development/maturity is further confounded. Boys don’t typically do as well, because sitting idle and being a “good boy”, is more challenging. This leads to a path for boys to start working earlier, while girls get higher degrees. (I assume the trends for higher education by gender, to be similar, if not, then that can falsify this hypothesis).
What a person then observes they get from society, vs what you pay in terms of taxes, is skewed between these two groups, and highly correlated with gender.
If this hypothesis has any validity to to it, then one could argue that a way to mitigate this is by correcting the negative causes. Where the fundamental root cause might be improved by revisiting how education is failing boys in particular.
The challenge with this is that if the conservative parties’ policies are driven by what can make more people vote conservative, then this will be a negative feedback loop. The worse you make it for a certain group of people that vote for you, the more that group is willing to vote for you.
I think the issue is simpler, in that the traditionally dominant group statistically reacts negatively to the levelling of the field and their loss of control and power over the other group. This and the fact that it’s statistically harder to see the oppression and feel for it when you are not affected by it(and this goes for every form of oppression).
Ok, then this would mean older women would be skewing further liberal, not younger women who don’t have any life experience to have seen anything change in these ways.
I genuinely fear for future for women across the world
Lol yeah woman were much safer, better educated, and financially independent historically. /S
Read “why women had better sex under socialism, and other arguments for economic independence”
What if they like being on top? 👀
I dont understand the joke
🤦 Sex under socialism versus being on top
Oh I think there is going to be a sequel where she covere tops’ rights within socialism
I’m no sexpert but I think when people say they are a top or a bottom they are talking specifically about gay sex?
Although maybe now it refers to bdsm stuff I don’t actually know
That’s a different argument - yes, things were worse in the past than they are now. That doesn’t mean that things won’t get worse than they are now in the future.
It also doesn’t mean they won’t remain exactly as they currently are, or get better.
That’s true, but it doesn’t negate the point you are replying to.
Looks at past. Looks at future, well shit climate change is going to savage human life on earth. Checks notes woman are human. Shit bros your right I fear for womans futures too!
