Progressive Democrats will and do. Neoliberal ones do not as they only care about the donor class
My city had ranked choice voting implemented by Democrats in the 1970s. They elected the first black mayor, who is still one of our most beloved mayors in the city’s history, under RCV.
Then Republicans made it illegal at a state level when they had a trifecta. Democrats keep introducing bills at the state level to allow RCV, and Republicans take more and more drastic action against it. So yeah… I want more Democrats in my state government so we can have RCV.
Ah today’s bothsidesism
Gotta give people their Two Minutes Hate or they might remember that voting for Democrats is, for most Americans, the actual least evil option on November 5.
To the surprise of nobody Republicans also don’t support a voting system that would end the Democrat-Republican duopoly.
Right on. Once the republicans have enough of a majority they will deal with all these voting problems.
Someone’s unwillingness to implement an effective solution doesn’t make an ineffective solution the answer.
The way forward on this is hounding them until they implement it, not fighting the math:
if they wont give us what we want or need they dont deserve our votes, maybe next time they will offer more than “im not the other guy”, if the democrats will not be pushed left then they should be destroyed.
In order for politics to align towards your values you have to vote for the candidate closest to them, which forces the losing parties to get closer or die, which pushes the winning party to move towards you.
If you throw away or don’t vote none of that happens because you have no impact.
This is wrong. The parties don’t see the views of the people that vote for them, just that they recieved more or fewer votes. If Leftists vote Dem 100% of the time, then the Dems will never move any more to the Left, because they already have their vote.
If a solution doesn’t have a realistic path to implementation, it doesn’t matter. The system itself is designed against change, RCV is something neither party actually wants.
Some few Democrats or states are allowed to support it as far as it gives RCV supporters some semblence of power, without actually pressuring the system.
Even if RCV was implemented, and a Third Party candidate won, the 2 establishment parties would work against any radical change.
It pressures the system in those cities or states, which is actual pressure to the system, just not direct pressure on the federal government. History shows you can mount pressure through local and state changes until it gets overwhelming support on a federal level.
You can make the argument there might be more effective or quicker solutions, but this is unquestionably one path toward it.
My point is that tiny, inconsequential pressure is allowed so that you think it applies pressure. Whenever it gets close to making a difference, it won’t.
You say that with a lot of certainty, but without any evidence to back it up. If history is any indication, lasting change is won from the bottom-up. You have to get the masses at large on your side first and the best way to do it is to show them, in small steps, that it can be done and that it’s effective.
If history is any indication, lasting change is won from the bottom-up. You have to get the masses at large on your side first and the best way to do it is to show them, in small steps, that it can be done and that it’s effective.
This is the opposite of correct, the ruling class will never do something because it’s right or effective, but because they need to. Read Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, you’re repeating the errors of the Owenites.
I don’t disagree that the ruling class won’t do something that doesn’t align with their interests. I’m saying that they will be forced to enact reforms once the political zeitgeist changes. The state has an exponentially larger capacity for violence than us. Our only viable option is the threat of non co-operation. The nuance lies in doing it in a way that we don’t lose the progress we have already made. That means aligning with the Democratic Party until we have enough political capital to form a viable third party. Owen was apolitical, I am not.
I’m saying that they will be forced to enact reforms once the political zeitgeist changes.
Are you suggesting genuine revolutionary pressure, or suggesting that public opinion meaningfully sways the parties?
The state has an exponentially larger capacity for violence than us.
Correct.
Our only viable option is the threat of non co-operation.
Not sure what this means, are you suggesting working outside the electoral system, or within it?
The nuance lies in doing it in a way that we don’t lose the progress we have already made. That means aligning with the Democratic Party until we have enough political capital to form a viable third party.
Where does this political Capital come from? How do you grow it if not working with Third Parties to begin with?
More importantly, if we side with the Dems, why does that increase the political capital of leftists? The GOP will not go away, even if the party itself crumbles, what will replace it will be another far-right party, because the material conditions for that remain as long as we continue to exist in decaying Capitalism.
Owen was apolitical, I am not.
Not sure what this means.
Out of curiosity, what do you consider yourself? Marxist, Anarchist, Liberal, etc.?
Alaska, a red state, is reportedly trying to remove their rank choice voting. This isn’t a “Dems” problem, it’s a two party problem.
Even if state and local elections are ranked choice, the presidential election will still be a first past the post election and the electoral college is still designed for a two party system.
Alaska, a red state, is reportedly trying to remove their rank choice voting. This isn’t a “Dems” problem, it’s a two party problem.
This is a counter to the Democratic party supporters you see everywhere who always get irrationally upset at third party voters, not about Republicans.
The point is, if the Democratic party never plan to address it, then how will it ever get done through voting Dem? The same goes for all the other issues people claim we should ignore in the name of “vote blue no matter who”, including their genocide.
This is a counter to the Democratic party supporters you see everywhere who always get irrationally upset at third party voters, not about Republicans.
Plenty of us Democrats are very much in support of a ranked choice voting schemes, or similar structural rules like non-partisan blanket primaries (aka jungle primaries). The most solidly Democratic state, California, has implemented top-2 primaries that give independents and third parties a solid shot for anyone who can get close to a plurality of votes as the top choice.
Alaska’s top four primary, with RCV deciding between those four on election day, is probably the best system we can realistically achieve in a relatively short amount of time.
Plenty of states have ballot initiatives that bypass elected officials, so people should be putting energy into those campaigns.
But by the time it comes down to a plurality-take-all election between a Republican who won the primary, a Democrat who won the primary, and various third party or independents who have no chance of winning, the responsible thing to make your views represented is to vote for the person who represents the best option among people who can win.
Partisan affiliation is open. If a person really wants to run on their own platform, they can go and try to win a primary for a major party, and change it from within.
TL;DR: I’ll fight for structural changes to make it easier for third parties and independents to win. But under the current rules, voting for a spoiler is throwing the election and owning the results.
